Christ and the Sufi : A Parable of Perfection

by ARCH STANTON

“Be ye therefore perfect

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. . . even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.”

Let’s compare Christ with the perfected Sufi. First, what are Christ’s teachings on the attainment of perfection?

Almost everyone is familiar with Jesus’ teachings in the Sermon on the Mount. We have all heard of the Master’s injunction to his disciples: “Love thine enemy” and “Turn the other cheek.” These verses from the Gospel of St Matthew are perhaps the most quoted verses in the New Testament:

“Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth:

But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.

And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloke also.

And whosoever shall compel thee to go a mile, go with him twain.

Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would borrow of thee turn not thou away.

Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy.

But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you:

Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth:

But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.

And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloke also.

And whosoever shall compel thee to go a mile, go with him twain.

Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would borrow of thee turn not thou away.

Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy.

But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;

That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.

For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same?

And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so?

Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

(Matt. 5:38-48)

Here is a sufi story that addresses the very same concept, but in a different manner; that of strength as opposed to what is typically perceived as weakness. Don’t just read the story, reflect on it, extend it out in your mind and see where it takes you. In that search, you will discover issues within yourself that must be addressed.


sufiThere once was a sufi master who was a soldier.

During a protracted war, he was at one point engaged in fierce, mortal combat. In the thick of furious battle, he finally overcame a vicious, determined foe. Besting the enemy and driving him to ground, the sufi closed in for the kill.

At the very moment he was about to deliver a fatal thrust of his sword to the neck of his prostrate enemy, his foe cried out in anguish, “Ah, If only I had your sword for a single moment, how different things would be!”

At once the sufi stopped his attack and surrendered his sword to his fallen enemy.

The soldier was dumbfounded.

Taking the sword from the sufi, he said: “Why did you do this?  You could have killed me! I was lost, and now you stop and present me with your sword! Why would you do such a stupid thing? —  for it is now I who will kill you!

The sufi shrugged. “I come from a family that grants any request, no matter how great,” he replied cooly. “You asked for my sword. I am honor bound to fulfill your request.”

The fallen soldier rose, and recognizing the sufi as a perfected master, returned his sword to him. Falling at the feet of the man who had just spared his life, he asked to become his disciple.

From that day forth, he followed the sufi as his master.

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40 thoughts on “Christ and the Sufi : A Parable of Perfection

  1. Jesus taught to temper evil, not incite evil to an even further rage, than it already and naturally is. Temper evil, and let Father do the rest, but do not allow evil to continue. Personally, I depend on Divine Intervention to protect me from the evil all around me.

    1. Personally, I depend on Divine Intervention to protect me from the evil all around me.

      So that’s the secret, huh? Divine intervention? Do you happen to have His number?

      (I could do with some help). 🙂

  2. Since I was a youngster, I have never understood the “turn the other cheek” phrase. And now that I am older, I am more befuddled than ever. For we live in a world where there are people in control who would – without conscience or soul – slit your throat once you’ve turned that cheek. Were all Christians to do this, we would be made extinct in short order. In many ways, the jews have used this weakness to use and maneuver us in subtle ways.
    We need to man-up and defeat all of the wolves before we can go back to safely grazing as sheep. If not, we will continue to be shorn and slaughtered.

    1. Self defense and defense of the innocent is never illegal. Not on earth nor in heaven.
      ‘Turn the other cheek’ (aka) don’t hold a grudge, don’t wallow in the passion and ignorance of scheming revenge, don’t covet the fruits of such acts, etc. are instructions/orders for maintaining civilized Aryan societies/behavior.
      Tests, trials and penance come called and uncalled to every life, like questions in a test.
      Come final exam time, we’ll find out, conclusively, how well we’ve studied and practiced our instructions/orders..

      1. Well said, Homer! Unlike many others here, you are advanced enough to know that Christianity does not turn its followers into wimps. Nor does it forbid self-defense or expect its adherents to stand by meekly and see their wives and children tortured and put to death before their eyes.

        The mistake people make is failing to distinguish between esoteric teachings (for a small handful of disciples) and exoteric teachings (for the masses). Jesus’ injunctions in the Sermon on the Mount were “counsels of perfection” intended only for a small elite — the twelve apostles and a few other disciples — they were NOT meant for the mass of mankind!

        We are not ALL meant “to turn the other cheek”, because these words of Christ were NOT intended for Joe Blow and for the imperfect strugglers on the lower rungs of the spiritual ladder. They were intended only for the spiritual elect — for the very few who were advanced enough for extreme tapas, or the fire of austerity, and ready for self-immolation.

      2. Sardonicus, this might interest you.
        Some of these folks certainly have a way with words..

        “Yes, we all want to “let it be” and become nice, kind and all-loving people. Srila Prabhupada had in this regard one message for us: “In this world? Not possible.”
        Two Mayas

    2. @Joe

      I think the truth of “turning the other cheek” is best illustrated by Arch’s story of the Sufi soldier. The point being, whom exactly are we turning the other cheek TO?

      The two combatants represent human beings who’ve come to an ultimate life or death situation which reflects their being engaged in a conflict whereby they’ve been duped by the REAL psychopathic enemy of mankind into believing that they are true enemies when this simply cannot be.

      We’re riled up to believe this by a satanic brainwashing that sows divisions of hatred among humanity and then foments the wars us which is our undoing.

      The rest as they say, is history – his (satan’s) story that we’ve bought into…hook line and sinker

    3. Hi Joe, I agree. There are some people who are so ruthless they would take everything from all those who would turn the other cheek.

  3. “The Sermon on the Mount ” seems to be a good example of what the Jews did with Holy Scriptures: Altering them to their benefit.
    According to the Qur’an : “An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth…” was a verse from the Old Testament:
    and Jesus came to confirm it, not to discard it:

    5:44. Indeed, We sent down the Torah, in which was guidance and
    light. The prophets who submitted [to Allah] judged by it for
    the Jews, as did the rabbis and scholars by that with which
    they were entrusted of the Scripture of Allah, and they were
    witnesses thereto. So do not fear the people but fear Me, and
    do not exchange My verses for a small price [i.e., worldly gain].
    And whoever does not judge by what Allah has revealed –
    then it is those who are the disbelievers.

    45. And We ordained for them therein [in the Torah] a life for a life, an eye for
    an eye, a nose for a nose, an ear for an ear, a tooth for a tooth,
    and for wounds is legal retribution. But whoever gives [up his
    right as] charity, it is an expiation for him. And whoever does
    not judge by what Allah has revealed – then it is those who
    are the wrongdoers [i.e., the unjust].

    46. And We sent, following in their footsteps, Jesus, the son of
    Mary, confirming that which came before him in the Torah;
    and We gave him the Gospel, in which was guidance and light
    and confirming that which preceded it of the Torah as guidance
    and instruction for the righteous.

    “That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.
    Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy. ”

    The counterpart of this verse in the Qur’an is:

    2:194. [Fighting in] the sacred month is for [aggression committed in]
    the sacred month, and for [all] violations is legal retribution.
    So whoever has assaulted you, then assault him in the same
    way that he has assaulted you. And fear Allah and know that
    Allah is with those who fear Him.

    Obviously, we see it every day in occupied Palestine, Jews don’t observe the Teachings of Jesus “…turn to him the other cheek…” They don’t observe the moderate Teachings of the Qur’an “: “… assault him in the same
    way that he has assaulted you.” They assault with bombs those who assault them with stones.

    1. Sadly the Christianity known worldwide today is a mythology created by Jews to subvert and emasculate the goyim. Lots of emphasis on Love, little emphasis on the Truth. The following quote is from a much longer article in Century Magazine, 1928, which but hints of the clever reconstruction of the teachings of Christ by Jews, particularly Saul, who became Paul the Apostle. Saul feigned conversion from Mosaism to Christianity to subvert and destroy what Christ really preached.” It is unbelievable, but you Christians do not seem to know where your religion came from, nor how, nor why. Your historians, with one great exception, (Gibbon) do not tell you. The documents in the case, which are part of your Bible, you chant over but do not read. We have done our work too thoroughly; you believe our propaganda too implicitly. The coming of Christianity is to you not an ordinary historical event growing out of other events of the time; it is the fulfillment of a divine Jewish prophecy—with suitable amendments of your own. It did not, as you see it, destroy a great Gentile civilization and a great Gentile empire with which Jewry was at war; it did not plunge mankind into barbarism and darkness for a thousand years; it came to bring salvation to the Gentile world!
      Yet here, if ever, was a great subversive movement, hatched in Palestine, spread by Jewish agitators, financed by Jewish money, taught in Jewish pamphlets and broadsides, at a time when Jewry and Rome were in a death-struggle, and ending in the collapse of the great Gentile empire. You do not even see it, though an intelligent child, un-befuddled by theological magic, could tell you what it is all about after a hasty reading of the simple record. And then you go on prattling of Jewish conspiracies and cite as instances the Great War and the Russian Revolution! Can you wonder that we Jews have always taken your anti-Semites rather lightly, as long as they did not resort to violence?”

    2. @ Sean

      “The Sermon on the Mount ” seems to be a good example of what the Jews did with Holy Scriptures: Altering them to their benefit.

      According to the Qur’an : “An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth…” was a verse from the Old Testament: and Jesus came to confirm it, not to discard it.

      Nonsense! You don’t know what you’re talking about. The opposite is true.

      Jesus did NOT come to confirm “An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth”, but to DISCARD it absolutely! Even a fool can see this by reading the Sermon on the Mount — especially the following passage:

      https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+5%3A38-48&version=KJV

      1. SARD,
        What you read in my post is from the perspective of a Muslim.

        1)The Qur’an tells in many verses that the Jews forged the Scriptures:

        2:75. Do you hope that they will believe in you, when some of them used to hear the Word of God, and then deliberately distort it, even after understanding it?
        2:79. So woe to those who write the Scripture with their own hands, and then say, “This is from God,” that they may exchange it for a little price. Woe to them for what their hands have written, and woe to them for what they earn.
        5:13. Because of their breaking their pledge, We cursed them, and made their hearts hard. They twist the words out of their context, and they disregarded some of what they were reminded of. You will always witness deceit from them, except for a few of them. But pardon them, and overlook. God loves the doers of good.

        2) And the Qur’an confirms that ” An eye for an eye…” was in the original Torah ,( verse 5:45} and it states in (verse 5:46) that Jesus (who came after Moses and both were sent to the Jews) confirms this rule , that’s why I believe that the Sermon of the Mount is not Jesus’ but a forgery by the Jews .
        All in all, the Teachings given therein contrast with the human nature and differ completely from the Jewish “ethics”.
        Mind you, I’m not criticizing Jesus but the Jews who might have put these words in his mouth.
        Notice that they never observe them themselves but they will not fail to take profit from the meekness these Teachings inspire…in others. For instance, a good Christian (as depicted above) will never bother them.
        To sum up, if you are a good Christian give way to Jewry.

      2. @ Sean

        Of course the words “An eye for and eye and a tooth for a tooth” occurred in the Jewish Torah. No one is denying that! It is from the Torah that Jesus quotes those words, only to reject and repudiate them completely. Not to “confirm” them, as you mistakenly claim.

        Sardonicus has already given you a link showing that Jesus rejected those words, so I don’t know what your problem is trying to state the OPPOSITE of the truth.

        Get your facts right and don’t try to defame Christianity on this site by making up false stories!

      3. You will not succeed in making Islam a more attractive religion if you distort and misrepresent Christianity.

  4. Thank you Arch Stanton. Sufi stories are much like Zen koans, you can ponder them for many years until just maybe one day a light will suddenly turn on in your mind. This one is more than sufficiently confusing.

    The Sufi isn’t consciously trying to or even thinking about doing good, he is simply that way. Perfection in other words. His ‘family’ is that way.
    But we ordinary folks struggle within ourselves, choices about what is right and good. There’s a dichotomy within us. We sometimes do well, other times not. And even when we do very well, we become self-satisfied about it, can’t help but congratulate ourselves on our goodness, and therefore reduce the virtue of it. Not so perfect. Our ‘family’ lusts for results.
    None of us can even define perfection, and don’t see it when we meet it. We meet Angels, Saints, even God and not know it.

    So interesting too, the bitter 180 degree enemies were really not opposite in their essence. One was perfected, one recognized perfection. If you can see it, you must be close to it.
    I pray for discernment.

  5. here we go again…. for the non-christian crowd. jews never even observed the 10 commandments, not now, not than, never. they are still killing thousands of chickens for their sins, just to keep repeating their sins year after year. the OT jews: remember, they were cutting heads off, stoning all apostles, prophets, adulterers, had Jesus to be crucified – conveniently commissioned to be done by some else…. etc. where did those additional “law inserts” came from? their so called “G-d” on one hand directed them not to kill; on the other hand the same so called “G-d” ordered literally a daily blood shed. they were murdering everyone throughout the OT in a most brutal manner. never stopped animal sacrifices. if you put “gold” or “money” into any search engine, their obsession with both – ad nauseam – is OBVIOUS.!!! ( http://www.biblestudytools.com/search/?s=bibles&q=I+am+the+light&t=niv&c=all )
    we don’t know what is exactly true, what was altered and how, even in the NT; but we can say what is NOT true. the good old moneychangers and the catholic church put these two stories together hoping for a few dollars more for themselves… Jesus has NOTHING to do with the OT, he is not jewish, Joseph and Mary were not jewish, he was born in Bethlehem of GALILEE, they lived in Galilee, .the arch enemies of the jews came to worship him from the far east, Jesus never thought jewish scriptures, he was baptized, there is no mention of dying for sins, also, the story of adam and eve is a total filthy incest, as the originators of humanity so the “original sin” of “knowledge of good and bad” is laughable ….. Jesus was not Christos (the “anointed one”, as he was NEVER anointed) probably he was Chrestos – simply the “good one” the Son of God….. if anyone bothers to read John and the other 3 apostles, the truth is staring at our face. this judeo-christian crp is far the biggest lie that was ever put together.

    1. @ AM

      “here we go again….” Yep. The plus side it that maybe new visitors to Darkmoon can be exposed to some basic truths.

      To add to your very decent post, anyone that bothers to actually define what a jew is will discover that a jew is merely a member of a religious cult. A cult does not require a location or a bloodline, just belief in a doctrine that makes no sense naturally or logically. Once the term jew is defined conclusively, it becomes striking evident that Jesus was not a jew. We have had this discussion more than once at Darkmoon.

      The foundation of the teaching of Jesus rests on the Second Commandment, “Love the neighbor as thy self.” The Second Commandment does not exist in the jewish Ten Commandments in Exodus, Chapter 20. Consequently, the teachings of Jesus are not compatible with the Mosaic Law. The LAW that Jesus was not changing was the Heavenly Father’s Law that existed before the Mosaic Law.

      According to John, chapter 1, Jesus was the one, the Word, that performed the creation. Jesus would have certainly known what the Law of God was which is why he rejected significant parts of the Mosaic Law. Jesus taught the original God’s Law.

      Additionally, Jesus taught the good power of the spiritual world over the physical world. Jesus would not have told his followers to heal the sick, raise the dead, cast out devils, and control the elements if it were not possible for them to do so. Since all it takes to become a follower of Jesus is to do the best you can to practice his teachings, the door is open for everyone on the planet that wants it.

      Everything that Jesus taught is contained adequately in the four Gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John. As a messenger, a stranger, told me many years ago. the answer to all questions are contained in the four Gospels. My experience and analysis has proven to me that the messenger was absolutely correct.

      As for meekness, meek does not mean weak. Meek merely means that you do not exalt yourself above your fellowman in any way. I personally know meek individuals that could break the average man in half if they desired. Most desire just to remain meek and get along with their fellowman.

      Concerning defense, Jesus would not have instructed his disciples to acquire swords if he was opposed to them protecting themselves. Jesus was not going to be with them to protect them so swords were needed.

      Any follower of the teaching of Jesus that initiates spiritual power over the physical world cannot be consider weak. Meekness is required to activate the power of the Heavenly Father.

      The greatest lies designed to mislead those seeking realization of the love of the Heavenly Father are:

      1. The Mosaic Laws are the Laws of God.

      2. Jews are anything but a faulty cult.

      3. The jews are God’s chosen people.

      4. Jesus was a jew.

      5. Paul knows more about the teachings of Jesus than Jesus in the Gospels.

      6. Revelations is part of the teachings of Jesus.

      Those accepting any of the above lies may seek the truth, but it will evade them. I speak from experience. When Jesus said that he was the way, the truth, and the life, he was being exceptionally serious.

      1. AM –

        Hang around and argue your case. Be a good defender of your positions. Don’t turn the other cheek…
        You will learn something….. and teach something. 🙂

  6. @BROWNHAWK
    I think, from a spiritual point of view, you’ve hit it on the spot and I especially blame the Muslims and Christians – for the most part – for allowing the world to get to this state. Both groups have allowed the devil’s agent to seduce and corrupt them, when in reality there isn’t such a great divide between the two that warrants the apparent traditional hatred and killings.
    Most Muslims for example, do not realize the full import to the title given to Isa ibn Maryam (Jesus, the son of Mary) in the Quran. The Quran gives him the title “Ruh-Ullah” or “Spirit of Allah”. While Islam categorically forbids the idea of God as a corporeal self – it is not my intent to get into a debate about the nature of God – the role of Isa (peace and blessing be on him always) ought not to be minimized, for his way represents the spirit of God on the Earth. After all, in Islam, he is the one and only he can defeat the false Messiah.
    I believe this is the reason why God breathed His Spirit into the Womb of Maryam (peace and blessings be on her always) directly without the agent of a man…his soul has a unique strength that is destined to defeat the anti-Christ, whose soul also has a unique quality, according to a report that stems from the Prophet.

    I understand the two main points of disagreement are: ‘the Nature of God’ and ‘salvation through the blood of Christ’ but at the end we could agree to disagree and leave it to Judgement. The Quran advises,”Say: “O people of the Book! Come to common terms as between us and you: that we worship none but God; that we associate no partners with Him; that we erect not from among ourselves Lords and patrons other than God.” Qur’an 3:64-71.

  7. “They are still killing thousands of chickens for their sins” Thus the Jewish idea: “Chicken zoup is good for the soul.”

    Jesus WAS a Jew. He had to be a Jew to carry out the acts described in the gospels. The Gospel’s careful description of the Mary’s blood linage identifies her son as a descendant of the house of David and that is about as Jewish as one can get.

    While the official story is that Jesus was personally sired by God in Heaven, I surmise the truth to be more down to earth in that his father was actually Joseph, a Temple priest. This is actually alluded to later in the Gospels when “Joseph of Arimathea”, a temple priest, has Jesus interred in his family tomb, an act that unmistakably identifies Jesus as Joseph’s close family member, like maybe his son?

    In fact Jesus not only had to be a Jew, like his father he had to be a Temple priest, a kohein, to question, rebuke and teach Temple law. The mountainous details of minutiae concerning first century Temple law and custom was not exactly public knowledge tweeted to the masses. One had to be an insider to have the kind of knowledge Jesus displayed to Temple authorities at the tender age of his Bar Mitzvah, an act that in itself signifies the coming of legal age of a Jewish male into Jewish society.

    Jesus said he came to “fulfill the law,” meaning would end the Temple’s Old Testament’s sacrificial laws. How could a non-jew possibly have made such a claim? Imagine the reception an atheist would receive were he to walk into the Vatican and announce: “I have come to chew bubblegum and reform church dogma by putting an end to these laws – and I’m all out of bubblegum.”

    Had a non-Jew done even the smaller acts carried out by Jesus, he would have at best been run out of Jerusalem, or more likely stoned to death. Here is a bit more insight from another comment I made recently:

    Jesus never claimed title to being either the “Son of god” or the “messiah.” This makes sense as he never considered himself either.

    The long awaited Messiah or “Mashiach” was expected to be a strong military leader, a king, sent by God to deliver the Jews from their Roman “oppressors”. Jesus did just the opposite, instead of delivering the Jews from the Romans, he delivered them from their corrupt Temple and its sacrificial system’s oppressive laws. As for the Romans, well, render unto Caesar. . .

    Jesus kept referring to himself as “the Son of man,” but when the Sanhedrin’s kohein gadol accuses him thus: “I adjure thee by the living God, that thou tell us whether thou be the Christ, the Son of God.”

    According to Matthew, Jesus’ replies, “Thou hast said: nevertheless I say unto you, Hereafter shall ye see the
    Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.”

    See? “Thou hast said” or in modern vernacular, “if you say so.” Not exactly an explicit admission to the words Caiaphas puts in his mouth. Then however he continues by identifying himself as the “Son of man” – not the “Son of God.”

    So what is a “Son of man?” According to Jews, they are the only “men,” all others are beasts created in the form of men to better serve the Jew. As such, they view their tribes as descendants of their God’s original Adamic man.

    When Jesus identifies himself as the “Son of man,” as he does some 88 times, he is saying, “I am a Jew’s Jew, a direct descendant of the original patriarchs who carry your law. Therefore, I actually have the true authority you falsely claim.”

    The title of “king” as applied to their coming messiah, was also assigned by the Sanhedrin as a mockery of the claim he had come to deliver the Jews from the Temple.

    Who was Jesus? Not a God, not a Messiah, but a poor, working stiff. An Essene sage, a healer and teacher who finally had enough. Jesus was mad as hell and wasn’t going to take it anymore.

    Jesus soundly rebuked Temple law by reversing the proclamation of death assigned by the kohanim to those yet living. He attacked the money changers in the Temple courtyard and finally thumbed his nose at Caiaphas to enable offering himself up as the Temple’s final blood sacrifice in the form of the Paschal lamb.

    So what does this have to do with non-Jews? – Nothing. Unless maybe one wants to pick up the ball and start
    attacking the Jew’s new Temple called “The Federal Reserve” and its sacrificial system called the “IRS.”

    Yes, you too can be a cosplay Jesus – just keep in mind the penalty.

    1. Is the term “Jew” merely an anglicisation of Judean/Ioudian? Or is it to be used to distinguish those who follow the Talmud as opposed to the Torah? If the Jews are those who follow the Talmud (originally called the “traditions of the elders” or the oral Talmud and which Jesus condemns) then Jesus aint a Jew.

      Apparently. Maybe. Who knows. I only briefly read into this subject 😛

      I thought Jewish infiltration into the Catholic Church after WWII led to these declarations that Jesus was a Jew? He was not a Pharisee Jew, which is all that remains of that religion over the last 2000 years, i.e. the Talmud followers. So if you say someone is a Jew today, you’re talking about the Talmud. Perhaps better to say he was an ancient Judean?

    2. From the Gospel of John…chapter 20…
      27Then Jesus said to Thomas, “Put your finger here and look at My hands. Reach out your hand and put it into My side. Stop doubting and believe.” 28Thomas replied, “My Lord and my God!” 29Jesus said to him, “Because you have seen Me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen, and yet have believed.”…

      There are ample words in the Bible attesting to the divinity of Jesus.
      http://www.whatthebibleteaches.com/wbt_130.htm

      1. I visited the basilica of St Thomas in Madras the other day, attended the English Mass in the underground chapel adjoining his grave as the only non-Tamil present.
        The young priest delivered a rocking sermon, quoting directly from “guru Iesu”.
        Been awhile since I heard the words of the Son of Man spoken in a church, mostly He is avoided and ignored even though the veneer is all about Him.
        Christians in Christian church, were did the name come from?
        No clue, don’t know much about historee …

      2. @ Lobro

        “Christians in Christian church, were did the name come from?”

        If my memory serves me properly, the term Christian started out as an insult to those that followed the teachings of Jesus by the jews. Since the jews did not believe that Jesus was the Christ, did not give them the world on a platter, Christian was intended to mock the followers of Jesus. Originally, the followers’ group name was The Way. I have no idea who decided to accept the insult/mocking name of Christian in place of The Way.

  8. While the Quran does re-iterate, “an eye for an eye….”
    It also says, “Not equal is the good deed and the bad deed. Repel evil with goodness, and then the one who is hostile to you will become, as it were, an intimate friend. But none is granted it except those who are patient and none is granted that except one having a great fortune.
    Surah Fussilat 41:34-35

  9. SEEB
    ” Repel evil with goodness, and then the one who is hostile to you will become, as it were, an intimate friend. ”
    Yeah, this might apply for Jews as individuals, never as a community.

  10. Christian Reader
    “You will not succeed in making Islam a more attractive religion if you distort and misrepresent Christianity.”

    CR, Islam is what it is and I’m not belittling Christianity to make it look better. The fact is the Bible is not the exact word of Jesus, much has been added or discarded by the Scribes along the way whilst the Quran is what it was 14 centuries ago. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jowQond7_UE
    So, I confirm what I told SARDONICUS above, with a slight correction:
    What you read in my post is from the perspective of the Qur’an , especially verses (5:45) and (5:46) cited in my first post.
    Sorry if you don’t like it . I wish I could read the original unalterable Bible.If you have a reference let me know it, I’ll consider converting to Christianity. Thank you in advance.

    1. @ Sean

      I agree with Sardonicus that you don’t know what you are talking about. I also agree with Christian Reader that you are distorting and misrepresenting Christianity by stating that the Old Testament phrase “An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth” was “CONFIRMED” by Jesus Christ in the New Testament.

      This is absolute garbage! Christ quoted the Old Testament “An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth” only to REJECT it. Do you understand the meaning of the word “reject”? It means that that Christ DID NOT AGREEE WITH IT! He DISAGREED with it. And Sardonicus gave you a link to the passage in St Matthew’s Gospel where Christ REJECTED the phrase:

      “You have heard that it was said, ‘Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.’[a] 39 But I tell you, do not resist an evil person. If anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to them the other cheek also. 40 And if anyone wants to sue you and take your shirt, hand over your coat as well. 41 If anyone forces you to go one mile, go with them two miles. 42 Give to the one who asks you, and do not turn away from the one who wants to borrow from you.”

      https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew%205:38-42

      You are certainly distorting and misrepresenting the words of Christ. No wonder you Muslims are getting so hated. How DARE you blaspheme against Christianity — a religion about which you clearly know NOTHING!

      You deserve a thousand lashes for your moronic stupidity, you evil scum!

      1. Bradley –

        I agree… Christ was telling everyone to give up and give in to the demands of others… including enemies. Do not resist.

        That leads to miscegenation..!!

        Christ also supported lending to others. That leads to Pharisee-Jew bankers’ controls…!!

    2. “You deserve a thousand lashes for your moronic stupidity, you evil scum!”

      A harsh punishment for a fool, albeit a contemptible one. I don’t think you can accuse this man of being “evil”. He is stupid, that’s all. Remarkably stupid and ill-informed.

      1. @ Sean

        You say Christ “confirmed” the Old Testament phrase “An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.” Prove it! Find the passage where he “confirmed” it. Quote the whole passage. Go on, I challenge you!

        If you cannot do that, SHUT UP!!!

  11. I have heard it said there were two different words used when describing “enemies” in the Bible. One meant a personal enemy , the other meant the national enemy. Both both words were translated the same. The enemy Christ was talking about in the passage in Matthew was the your personal enemy for which he urged reconciliation but not for the national enemy.

    Anyway you have heard it said blessed are the meek. (Meek meant humble not weak, bad translation) But even more blessed are the strong, blessed is he among us who uses his strength and power to protect the women and children of our race. He, and he alone, will I called blessed and true. Or as Shakespeare said the quality of mercy is not strained in the mighty.

  12. Bradley Arnold and Madame Butterfly,
    Two or three things you don’t seem to take into account in your response to my allegation:
    1- I am a Muslim and I can’t be a Muslim if I deny Christianity or Jesus Christ (as a prophet) peace be upon him.
    2- I am quoting the Qur’an, not the bible as the Qur’an considers the Bible partly forged.
    3- I am not “targeting” Jesus or the Bible itself. As I said above the Qur’an stated in many verses that the Holy Scriptures had been tampered with by the Children of Israel to whom Jesus was sent. So, it’s the deeds of Jews that I am incriminating,not Jesus, neither the Bible. Now if you consider that all that is given in the Bible is authentic Word of Jesus ( even where it is spoken of him in the third person) it’s up to you; I am not asking you to regard the Quran as the Word of God, even if I do regard it as so.
    4- Jews who tried to kill the Prophet Muhammad tried and are still trying to undermine Islam. Muslims often spot altered passages in some editions of the Qur’an. Sometimes a whole chapter is omitted.
    But the most insidious way to undermining Islam is through misinterpretation,, advisory opinion or legal Fatwa and the equal treatment of the fundamental and the accessory. The Web is full with these Fatwas which happen to permit the forbidden and forbid the permitted in the name of Sharia.
    I’m coming later on this.

    1. sean,

      if you say that
      a) Qur’an was not written by man but by Almighty Allah Himself, and
      b) Qur’an states that Jesus insisted on “Eye for an eye” (whether directly or through steadfast support of Torah), but
      c) there is nothing in any of the Gospels to confirm this

      Then what? surely Allah wouldn’t lie or make an elementary mistake in handing down His Word to the faithful, would he.
      Best to fall on the sword and be reborn with a grin then suffer constant pestering, to err is human if writing the Qur’an isn’t.
      Blaming the evangelists just won’t wash in this forum.
      We, the Christians, too have our Acheiropoieta (relics not made by human hands) solidly predating The Prophet Mohamed and these icons confirm the Gospels in many details, including the all-important tiny ones that no forger would bother with.

    2. “I’m coming back on this later.”

      Sorry, I have inadvertently put the subsequent comment under the entry: “Rubáiyát of Omar Khayyám “.

  13. @LOBRO
    ….guru Iesu…
    How the name Jesus came to be associated with ‘Isa.
    In Arabic and Aramaic it is generally understood the original name to be ‘Isa pronounced like ‘Yesa the ‘Ye has a slightly guttural soft y sound – keep in mind there are no original Aarmaic gospels; they are all in Greek.
    To Romans, names ending in ‘a’ would normally be feminine. In order to make the name ‘Yesa masculine they added ‘us’ at the end. This was a common practice and you see many Latin feminine names where they drop the ‘a’ at the end and add the ‘us’. For example, Maxima is the feminine form of Maximus.
    ‘Yesa then becomes ‘Yesus; here it is easy to see how the ‘Y becomes ‘J’ since in the great majority of Germanic languages the ‘Y’ sound was spelled with a ‘J’.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J
    And so the ‘Y’ sound began to be written with the ‘J’. The ‘J’ later took on the English sound to it. This is the same for Yousef to Joesef, Yakob to Jakob, Yunus to Jonas…..
    This is just my take on it.

    1. ADMIN: Here’s another specimen of off-topic garbage from our spam folder:

      uhh ohh, there’s going to be trouble, I just know it, I see joosus is preaching that divisive trouble-making kathylickism right by one of Our sacred pyramids to Hootzeepootzee and WE all know how Our Sun God Father hates it joosus is The Lamb of God Who Takes Away The Sins of the World and Grants Us Peace In HIS Redemption and Salvation Unto Our Everlasting Souls Via HIS Sacrifice On The Cross of Calvary , The Crucifixion, let Us call it “the crucifiction” shall WE, all ye Aztec SUN GOD Worshippers, HIS Precious Blood The Blood of The Lamb, GOD Incarnate, HIS Light and HIS Grace, and the world don’t need us Aztecs no mo’ no mo’ to rip the hearts outta of living human beings, or even four-legged animals, and eat the flesh and drink the blood of Our victims on TOP of Our pyramids to THE SUN GOD FATHER, because of their joosus and their kathylickism and their Lamb of GOD, their Christ, their Redemption and Salvation, their Eucharist, their Sacrament of Holy Communion, The Last Supper, oh boo hoo hoo hoo hoo….. their Sacrifice is The Sacrifice of The Holy Mass The Body and Blood of their Jesus Christ God they prefer , NOT ripping the hearts outta of living creatures, neither four legged animals not even human hearts do they rip out and eat and drink the blood of their victims they just tortured so brutally, oh boo hoo hoo hoo.. those obstinate reprobates, those **&&^^%%%##@@!!! kathys and their atavistic barbaric cannibalistic sacrifices they do in their kathy churches!!!!

  14. Jesus never rejected the Mosaic Law. The word “love” is often used loosely and, so, the word to best define “love” would be “respect”, which provides the broadest application.

    “Love” can be found in The Commandments given to Moses and is in Deuteronomy 5:21

    5:21 Neither shalt thou desire thy neighbour’s wife, neither shalt thou covet thy neighbour’s house, his field, or his manservant, or his maidservant, his ox, or his ass, or any [thing] that [is] thy neighbour’s.

    The Teachings of Jesus are perfectly compatible with the Mosaic Law (as It was written).

    Jesus never rejected the Mosaic Law, but rejected those who used the Talmud instead for control and self-enrichment.

    Matthew 23:1 Then spoke Jesus to the multitude, and to his disciples,

    23:2 Saying, The lawyers and the politicians sit in Moses’ Law seat:

    23:3 All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe of God’s Law, [that] observe and do; but do not ye after their example: for they say, and do not (and make up their own laws against God’s Orders – Deut. 4:2).

    23:4 For they bind heavy burdens (the Talmud) and grievous to be borne, and lay [them] on men’s shoulders; but they [themselves] will not lift one of their fingers to remove them.

    The foundation of Jesus’ Teachings rest on two Commandments: John 13:34-35;14:15-18 and Matthew 7:1-2. The first teaches love and the second is about The Law of Judgment. The Law of Judgment does not say there is no Judgment. It Commands man not to judge, but to only apply God’s Judgements that are written in the Mosaic Law.

    John 13:34 A new COMMANDment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.

    13:35 By this shall all [men] KNOW that ye are my disciples, IF ye have love one to another.

    14:15 If ye love me, KEEP my COMMANDments.

    14:16 And I will pray the Father, and He shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

    14:17 [Even] the Spirit of Truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

    14:18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.

    Matthew 7:1 Judge NOT, that ye be not judged.

    7:2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.

    Those two Commandments provide the spiritual aspect to the Commands given to Moses.

    Matthew 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no way pass from The Law, till all be fulfilled.

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