Greater Israel: Myth or Reality?

A short debate on the Darkmoon site
between Franklin Ryckaert and Ormanci

Edited and introduced by Lasha Darkmoon
with some added material in the form of quotes

LD: In his Complete Diaries, Vol. II. p. 711, Theodore Herzl, the founder of Zionism, says that the area of the Jewish State stretches: “From the Brook of Egypt to the Euphrates.” Rabbi Fischmann, member of the Jewish Agency for Palestine, declared in his testimony to the UN Special Committee of Enquiry on 9 July 1947: “The Promised Land extends from the River of Egypt up to the Euphrates, it includes parts of Syria and Lebanon.” This comes  from Oded Yinon’s “A Strategy for Israel in the Nineteen Eighties” (See here and here)

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THE PROMISED LAND
according to the Oded Yinon Plan

The Oded Yinon Plan was first set forth in an essay written by the Jewish scholar Oded Yinon. It was published in the Hebrew journal Kivunim (Directions) in February 1982. It was later translated from Hebrew into English by Israel Shahak, the famous anti-Zionist Israeli Jew, in June 1982, a week after Israel’s invasion of Lebanon.  (LD)

FRANKLIN RYCKAERT: In the supposed territory of “Greater Israel”, the area from the Nile to the Euphrates, about 100 million people live. If Israel really has a plan to colonize that enormous stretch of land, it not only has to ethnically cleanse it but also to repopulate it with Jews.

There are at most 14 million Jews in the world and not all would like to settle in that “Greater Israel”. Then there is the small problem of defending that territory, not only against the people who were expelled from it and want to return, but also against the whole Arab world, the whole Islamic world, the whole Third World and probably the whole Western World too, including the US.

There are no indications that Israel really has such an insane plan. If it did, it would never have given up the Sinai and Gaza and would have annexed the West Bank and have expelled all Palestinians already long ago. This idea of a secret Israeli “Greater Israel” plan is a paranoid conspiracy theory of people with little sense of realism. It cannot be done and Israel is not trying to do it.

ORMANCI: Franklin Ryckaert writes: “In the supposed territory of “Greater Israel”, the area from the Nile to the Euphrates, about 100 million people live. If Israel really has a plan to colonize that enormous stretch of land, it not only has to ethnically cleanse it but also to repopulate it with Jews.”

Logic fail. Currently, with less than 2% of its population, the ‘master race’ has a de facto control over the USA (not to mention the rest of the western satrapies) more complete than the practical jurisdiction than most ‘elected’ governments have over the states which they govern. Using their complicit stooges in the wider population – in this case, punitively “Christian” – to enforce their cultural hegemony, and buying the politico-judicial class a dime a dozen, they shift billions of dollars of taxpayer money – and huge amounts of resources, to their gang headquarters every year, without complaint or oversight.

All this, in the so-called ‘developed world.’ In the area of your 100 million, already half way gone to dissolution of sovereign states already, the process of subsuming control of governments is even easier. This is not conceptual – that Tel Aviv is firmly in control of the breakaway Kurdistan in northern Iraq is well known, as is their command over the so-called ‘Islamic State’ forces in Syria and Iraq. Money talks, regardless of religious window dressings. And the Yinon Plan is well along to its completion.

MICHEL CHOSSUDOVSKY: The document pertaining to the formation of “Greater Israel” constitutes the cornerstone of powerful Zionist factions within the current Netanyahu government, the Likud party, as well as within the Israeli military and intelligence establishment. The election was fought by Netanyahu on a political platform which denies Palestinian statehood.

According to the founding father of Zionism Theodore Herzl, “the area of the Jewish State stretches: “From the Brook of Egypt to the Euphrates.” According to Rabbi Fischmann, “The Promised Land extends from the River of Egypt up to the Euphrates, it includes parts of Syria and Lebanon.”

When viewed in the current context, the war on Iraq, the 2006 war on Lebanon, the 2011 war on Libya, the ongoing war on Syria, not to mention the process of regime change in Egypt, must be understood in relation to the Zionist Plan for the Middle East. The latter consists in weakening and eventually fracturing neighboring Arab states as part of an Israeli expansionist project.

“Greater Israel” consists in an area extending from the Nile Valley to the Euphrates.

The Zionist project supports the Jewish settlement movement. More broadly it involves a policy of excluding Palestinians from Palestine leading to the eventual annexation of both the West Bank and Gaza to the State of Israel. Greater Israel would create a number of proxy States. It would include parts of Lebanon, Jordan, Syria, the Sinai, as well as parts of Iraq and Saudi Arabia. (See map).

The Promised Land

According to Mahdi Darius Nazemroaya in a 2011 Global Research article, the Yinon Plan was a continuation of Britain’s colonial design in the Middle East:

“The Yinon plan is an Israeli strategic plan to ensure Israeli regional superiority. It insists and stipulates that Israel must reconfigure its geo-political environment through the balkanization of the surrounding Arab states into smaller and weaker states.

Israeli strategists viewed Iraq as their biggest strategic challenge from an Arab state. This is why Iraq was outlined as the centerpiece to the balkanization of the Middle East and the Arab World.

In Iraq, on the basis of the concepts of the Yinon Plan, Israeli strategists have called for the division of Iraq into a Kurdish state and two Arab states, one for Shiite Muslims and the other for Sunni Muslims. The first step towards establishing this was a war between Iraq and Iran, which the Yinon Plan discusses.

The Atlantic, in 2008, and the US military’s Armed Forces Journal, in 2006, both published widely circulated maps that closely followed the outline of the Yinon Plan. Aside from a divided Iraq, which the Biden Plan also calls for, the Yinon Plan calls for a divided Lebanon, Egypt, and Syria. The partitioning of Iran, Turkey, Somalia, and Pakistan also all fall into line with these views. The Yinon Plan also calls for dissolution in North Africa and forecasts it as starting from Egypt and then spilling over into Sudan, Libya, and the rest of the region.

Greater Israel” requires the breaking up of the existing Arab states into small states. The plan operates on two essential premises.

To survive, Israel must (1) become an imperial regional power, and (2) must effect the division of the whole area into small states by the dissolution of all existing Arab states. ‘Small’ here will depend on the ethnic or sectarian composition of each state. Consequently, the Zionist hope is that sectarian-based states become Israel’s satellites and, ironically, its source of moral legitimation.

This is not a new idea, nor does it surface for the first time in Zionist strategic thinking. Indeed, fragmenting all Arab states into smaller units has been a recurrent theme.”

Viewed in this context, the war on Syria and Iraq is part of the process of Israeli territorial expansion. Israeli intelligence working hand in glove with the US, Turkey and NATO is directly supportive of the crusade directed against the so-called Islamic State (ISIS), which ultimately seeks to destroy both Syria and Iraq as nation states.

Michel Chossudovsky, Global Research, March 22, 2015

FRANKLIN RYCKAERT (update) : A Jewish Empire with a majority Arab subject population is impossible because nowadays populations don’t accept such subjugation anymore. The British could rule over 300 million Indians only as long as they accepted their subjugation. When that ended – by violent or non-violent means – the British Raj ended. Same in all other European colonies.

The Israelis already have experience on a small scale with this scenario in Gaza. A minority of 7000 Jews lived there among 1,5 million hostile Palestinians. They needed heavy military protection for their security. Travel was only possible in armed convoys. This situation was unsustainable and even “hawk” Sharon decided to end it. A Jewish Empire with a majority Arab subject population would be a “Greater Gaza” and even less sustainable than “Little Gaza”.

The Jews are already in a dilemma in the occupied West Bank. They would like to annex it, but don’t know what to do with the Palestinian population. Ethnic cleansing is politically unacceptable, but granting them citizenship would make the Palestinians the majority in Israel. Under democracy they could then easily outvote the Jews in all matters. The only solution would be to deny them voting rights and keep them under a form of “Apartheid”, but that too is politically unacceptable.

This is the famous “Democracy or Apartheid” dilemma that currently besets Israeli politics.

How well would a Jewish Empire fare with a subject population of 100 million Arabs either under democracy or apartheid? Under democracy the Arabs would vote their Jewish masters out, under apartheid they would rebel. Ask the white Rhodesians and the white Afrikaanders what the outcome of such a scenario would be.

Drawing historical parallels with the Pax Romana and the Pax Britannica is ill-advised, because this fails to take into account that we are dealing now with a people of completely different mentality.

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66 thoughts on “Greater Israel: Myth or Reality?

  1. The ruin of Lebanon, Egypt, Syria and Iraq will be followed by Jordan and Saudi Arabia.

    Qui Bono?

    Greater Israel looks possible. A regional nuclear power.

    1. I think this is a pivotal point in history. The creation of Israel and its support by the USA/UK is the main reason the moslems hate the west.

      The most dangerous scenario is a great islamic war against Israel. The ISIL group could be the early stages of a powerful Caliphate which would control all the arab countries. They will eventually stop fighting each other and all turn on Israel. They would be facing an Israel whose threat to use nuclear weapons is real. The “Sampson Option”

      This would make 20th century wars seem like a picnic. There is a strong possibility that Israel would nuke any western country where the majority of the population is anti-Israel. That would include most countries in Europe.

      Zionists have a burning hatred that is based on the holocaust, which is myth, like the old testament. They refuse to even look at the facts. The whole thing, the Old testament and the holocaust, has been a fraud and is leading the world into a disaster.

      How do we handle it? Up to now everything the west has done in the near east has made things worse. Best to stop doing anything and withdraw all our military.

      After that we should try to persuade the Zionists to go back to where they came from, Germany, Poland, Russia etc.

    2. @FR, Can you see the population removal happening from the countries around Occupied Palestine? Create enough mayhem and give the citizens free passage to greener pastures. This has been long in the making.

      Ensure western countries are ‘prosperous’ – Check
      Ensure western birth rates are low (cannot replace aging or dying population)- Check
      Create mayhem in Arab countries- check
      open routes to western countries – check
      plan realised.

      All the ki*es did was decimate the European population, we have a ‘land without people’.
      Create mayhem in Arab countries and we have a ‘people without land’.

      You connect the dots.

  2. I have great respect for the erudite Franklin Ryckaert but in this instance I think he is wrong to suggest that “Greater Israel” is a myth, i.e., an impractical, pie-in-the-sky scheme that Israel has neither the wish nor capability to realize. Ever since the days of Ben Gurion, Greater Israel has been on the cards. The Oden Yinon Plan confirms it.

    Come, Franklin, admit it. Haven’t they already grabbed hold of territory in Syria (the Golan Heights) and in South Lebanon? Don’t they wish to push their border further north in Lebanon up to the Litani river?

    As for Israel not annexing the West Bank and Gaza, this is not because they are content with the land the have already stolen. It’s purely for selfish reasons. If they annexed the West Bank and Gaza, they would be forced to make all the Arabs there Israeli citizens. They would then be under obligation to feed and clothe millions of Arabs and give them access to the Israeli job market.

  3. Talmud makes rules on the fly, meaning, there are no rules, certainly none that cover the talking beasts.
    Wanna talk some more?

    Ok, your wishes are very important

    Israel’s bus company Egged has accepted this ad in Jerusalem:

    “Statement of the kingdom. From the teachings=instructions of the [Lubavitcher] rabbi

    The Gentile does not want anything. He waits to be told what the Jew wants!”

    Is there a resident linguist who could verify from the photo?

    My Google translator says, Wikipedia confirms, Facebook blows wet kisses,
    “Jews love the goyim unconditionally and have forgiven them all the past and future Holocausts as well as the nefarious banking swindles – it’s okay, we understand and have no interest in the Eretz Yishröely from Colorado to Yangtze.”

    (Note the use of the term kingdom, just like realm in Clean Break)

    1. “Talmud makes rules on the fly, meaning, there are no rules, certainly none that cover the talking beasts.”

      “Wanna talk some more?” Having said everything I needed to – prior to this:

      “So much so that I have incorporated your comment into the article above, allowing you to have the final word”

      I would have preferred to have answered that question with a decided no. But this is a struggle which allows of no rest – nor walking away, nor even taking refuge in concern for petty injustices, such as is the prevailing motif which guides many of those here. There are more important things than that the dimension of the personal to consider here… so, let us make a silk purse out of a sow’s ear!

      Talmud does indeed ‘make its rules on the fly.’ Your usual ability to cut to the crux is the saving grace here Lobro. With that as opening statement, we can proceed to ask – what is the talmudic modus operandi doing so blatantly imposed onto this putatively ‘anti-talmudic’ site? Here, we have an entirely new definition of the word “debate” render respect and fair play superfluous to the apparent purpose of setting up this one-sided affair.

      Within this newly revised definition of the term, we can pretend that one of the supposed ‘debatees’ is an unnecessary component to the actual proceedings – such that the other party to that ‘debate’ can address their statements entirely to the apparent ‘referee’ of that debate – who in turn, becomes the only acknowledged and indeed active participant with them in the alleged ‘debate.’! What a strange twist to an affair already suspect, right out of the box!

      An event, prearranged without the preliminary notifications and behind scenes requests which took place for a similar event recently staged between poster Sardonicus and JB Campbell. Everyone it seems, in that instance was worthy of notice and permission granting. A ‘sliding scale’ of worthiness one might ask? How does a ‘less worthy’ party manage to even show up to a ‘debate’ in which their presence is peripheral – when not so much as advised of said debates existence? Does it matter? Apparently such niceties indeed, do not.

      So what does matter here?

      The temptation to indulge in the mimetically-impressed theology ruling this site – that of self-victimization, and the endless variations pon ‘blaming’ “the other” which ensue from it…

      is almost[oh, for an editor with italic and bold functions here!] overwhelming! Yet with knowledge of our ‘counter-theme’…. the mechanics of kabbalist black magic as an effective and now TOTALIZED reality in each and every corner of thought within the Occidental world … we can safely avoid such unseemliness, and get on with what needs be CELEBRATED about this bizarre set up. Wherein, just as with Jean Baudrillard’s brilliant analysis of the first “Gulf War” – as having never taken place – we witness a ‘debate’ which instead of fulfilling the requirement of ‘debate’… begets a simulacra of debate!

      What is there then to ‘celebrate’ in this mess of contempt and disrespect for ‘the outsider?’ He who is neither, anymore, either ‘one of us’ nor even ‘one of them’ – but by being outside of any such pallid characterization, is rendered all the more to be feared and despised? Let us celebrate the sweet willingness of all parties here to act as poster children for the conception I have brought to the table… to confirm via both action and words the real – and really all encompassing power of kabbalistic black magic over the minds of ALL who stayed behind in the fallen lands – unwilling to take the measures necessary to keep clear of the gradual dismemberment of their capacities of free thinking – even free will!

      If you know “Lasha,” it is ‘impossible/unbelievable’ to credit her with malice aforethought, or the deliberate intent to demean another here – nor to create an ‘unlevel’ playing field in which the deck is singularly stacked against the ‘other.’ Yet those disparities exist – created by none other than they who ultimately controls the site… how to account for this mystery? No mystery exists – anymore than ‘dilemmas’ exist in the minds of sionist who create subterfuges of dilemma in the minds of their dupes.

      The reality of kabbalistic mind control explains all this – and much more. I am certain that the moderator who dares attempt bully me on another thread is a well-learned and kindly soul, not given over to abusing their authority, nor the posters under their oversight – yet such abuses are evident to the detached observer/ again, there is no mystery. Weaving in and out of lucidity, calm one minute, on a tear the next, the denizens of the western satrapies proceed, convinced that their faculties remain what they once were, so convincing is the magic act which both subsume those faculties and plays them back to the victims as ‘unchanged’ at the same time! A poster ‘normally’ to be counted upon for a trenchant review of things falls prey to a barking mad diatribe in support of the veracity of a ‘spoofed’ report about comments to do with raping white girls…. is there some mystery here?

      No there is not. Just as kabbalistic mind control has reached its total domination over the minds of each and every one of its intended victims in the western world, each and every victim of that dark cloud of evil denies the existence of kabbalistic black magic – and its ability to impact their lives. To the very end! I come, therefore, not to find fault with the word and actions of the participants here – but to celebrate their willingness to provide the most telling examples possible of this pervasive evil in action every day… in every way.

      So instead of walking away in disgust, I will stay on board until the victims are ‘directed’ to mutiny at the presence of one who cares enough to stay the course – and bump from their midst one’s whose warnings to their former kith and kin will always be scorned and buried. I will stay as long as is necessary to see that the real victims of the psychopathy which sends the western world into conflict with its neighbors – real victims such as those Yazidi girls – are given their day… and every last chance to make the westerner understand that their plight is identical… is finally exhausted. Then I will go… content in knowing I’ve done all I was able.

      Fighting with one arm behind my back is not new to me – in fact I’ve become adept at such sport, by necessity. But till now, those circumstances have developed on message boards I would call – those of the enemy. This was not such a one, to my understanding previously, as if any could be thought friendly to my cause, it should have been this. That it is not, is powerful confirmation of what I came to say in the first place. I rest my case, once again reliant upon that brilliant insight of Claude Steiner, with which to offset the failed barbs of a mod who should really know better….

      ““Paranoia is a state of
      heightened awareness. Most
      people are persecuted beyond
      their wildest delusions.”

      Ain’t it the truth…

  4. @ Lobro

    Where does lobro live? In Tel Aviv? Jerusalem? Beth Shemesh? Afula? What does lobro do for a living? He’s online every second of every day.

    Does lobro have a falafel shop in Afula and shoots off his opinions between making falafels for the customers? I mean really, lobro is online every second of every day, ’round the clock NON STOP. For years and years and years.

    woebro is very annoying, he always was, and I guess he’ll always be annoying, something very fey and phony about lobro, something that just doesn’t ring true. And I’m sure he’s very intelligent, but he’s not that intelligent to make his words ring true, no matter how hard he strives to sound as if he really means what he says, his words never quite have the ring of truth.

    Something very fake and phony about lobro. I’m sure “lobro” means “snake” in some foreign language somewhere in the world. I’m sure of it.

      1. I don’t know… it doesn’t make any sense to me… but then again I ain’t no kind of habiru, not a joo habiru and not a moozlum habiru …..sayin’….,

        but say the Chinese, I shall refer to them as COG [ Chinese Occupied Government] , if say COG invaded my country of the United States and destroyed my country of the United States and if, say, I wanted to immigrate out of the destroyed United States destroyed by COG, an American “war refugee” looking for safety and asylum and to escape COG, the very last place I would want to immigrate to is China, the very heart of COG, to spend the rest of my life being surrounded by the very same COGmites who just destroyed my country of the United States. Personally, I wouldn’t feel very secure and safe being surrounded by the very same COG Chinese who just destroyed my country of the United States, who killed so many of my fellow American citizens. Never mind I would feel like a bit of a traitor to go live in the very country surrounded by the very same Chinese who just killed so many of my fellow Americans, sayin’. I wouldn’t feel right or feel comfortable with myself… but then again I ain’t no lobro or woebroyim or any kind of habiru, joo, moozlum, or mulengeon mettisse melange admixture or mahmoody or salman or Ingrid or Karen or Noor or any kind TUT TUT TUTzie. Thank you, TROJ.

  5. You guys confuse two things that are different, yet you call it by the same name: “Greater Israel” plan.

    On the one hand there is the idea of territorial expansion “from the Nile to the Euphrates”, of which I think I have sufficiently demonstrated that it is an impossible dream and not real in Israeli politics. Only this should be called the “Greater Israel” plan.

    On the other hand there is the Oded Yinon plan to fragmentize all Israel’s neighbors to secure its regional hegemony. I don’t deny the Oded Yinon plan, but that should not be called the “Greater Israel” plan. Call it the “Regional Hegemony” plan or whatever.

    Now you demonstrate that the plan of Oded Yinon for regional hegemony, which you wrongly call the “Grearter Israel” plan, is real and then think that you have therewith “proved” that the plan for territorial expansion “from the Nile to the Euphrates”, which only should be called the “Greater Israel” plan, is real also.

    Do you understand your mistake?

    1. @ Franklin Ryckaert

      Yes, I concede you have a point. There are two different “plans” here and it is wrong to conflate them.

      But it surely remains to be seen whether the Oded Yinon plan, involving the fragmentation of all the Arab states around Israel, does not at some future date morph into a Pax Judaica — a kind of Jewish Empire in the Middle East which is for all practical purposes identical to “Greater Israel”.

      How can we talk of “Jewish World domination” if we insist that Israel will always remain small? Didn’t the Romans start off small, with seven hills around Rome, and end up with a vast empire?

      1. @ Lasha Darkmoon

        The difference is that usually one can only be Jewish by birth. Conversion is possible but is not encouraged. A territorial “Greater Israel” could never populate its acquired space by a surplus birthrate alone. Thus conversion on a mass scale would be necessary. Conversion of whom? Arabs? How sincere would that be?

        A great Jewish empire with a great Jewish population is an impossible dream and the Jews know that.
        They’d rather exploit existing populations as they have done successfully for centuries. They only need their own little state as a refuge for Jewish criminals and victims of “anti-Semitism”. But to secure the survival of that state they think they need to weaken their neighbors according to the Oded Yinon plan. That is already destructive enough, but still not the same as a plan for extreme territorial expansion.

      2. Franklin,

        You make some good points, but I don’t altogether follow your reasoning. I am lost! 🙂 Why would it be necessary, if Israel ever established a Jewish Empire (= “Greater Israel”) to convert all the Arabs to Judaism or even make them Israeli citizens? Why can’t all the Arabs in the putative Jewish Empire remain Arabs and continue practicing Islam?

        When the Brits conquered India and incorporated it into the British Empire, they didn’t have to give British citizenship to all the Indians or force them to convert to Christianity. I see no reason why the Israelis, if they ever got a Jewish Empire in the Middle East, should not model themselves on the British Empire and treat the Arabs in exactly the same way as the Brits treated the Indians.

        I apologize if I have somehow misunderstood what you are trying to say. But honestly, I find it strange that you should rule out the possibility of the Jews getting a Pax Judaica (= Jewish Empire] for themselves at some future remote date — maybe centuries from now — given that the Romans managed to get their Pax Romana and the Brits their Pax Britannica with relatively few Romans and Brits compared to the vast numbers of their subjects.

      3. “There are two different “plans” here and it is wrong to conflate them.”

        There is, in essence, but one plan in the minds of the hegemonists, and that is to separate the gentile peoples of this world from all that may, by right of tradition or possession, belong to them. In achieving this goal, the rabbinical talmudist and the sabbatean-frankist have joined forces tactically in order to “work both sides of the fence.” You will therefore find an infinite variety of plans, opinions, factions, and blind alleys when trying to understand judaist politics and asilupirations – which serve to confuse and misdirect even the most diligent searcher – unless you understand this.

        There is no “strategic” distinction therefore to be made between the Yinon Plan and the so-called “Greater Israel Plan.” They are both exercises in dissimulation – true & false at the same time. You need to have grasped the real dimension of Hegelian dialectics and Nietzschean rhetoric – as poisons aimed at the heart of the western intellectual tradition – to get this point, or else the intended confusion, which apparent contradictions are designed to create, surrounds all debate like a dark fog. With the incredible scholarship and linguistic faculty of Michael Hoffman to guide them on this point …. there is no reason at all for anyone to be confused on this point, nor to concede that the \confusion\ is in their viewpoint, rather than an intended consequence of deceptive sophistry on the part of the talmudist dissimulator.

        All debate is controlled. Therefore, all ‘information’ is suspect. At a certain point, one learns to rely upon their instinctive sense of self-preservation, in abeyance to the merely intellectual grasp of phenomena, to cut through that fog and separate truth from its simulacra.

        Controlling territories and populations is NOT a matter of population counts. Until Mr. R successfully rebuts that statement, and the evidence I have used to buttress that contention, he has neither ‘successfully demonstrated’ the absence of an intent to control an area (even much greater than)from Egypt to the Euphrates, nor shown reason to concede a conflation of two different intentions – filed under false under the rubric of “separate plans.”

        Those who listen to and act upon ‘gut instinct’ have some measure of opportunity to survive the attempt to genocide the western people. Those who remain caught up in the dialectical reasoning of their main enemy will perish, body and soul, to occupy the hell which has been prepared for them.

      4. asilupirations///!<?
        *should read, of course, as aspirations.

        "That is already destructive enough, but still not the same as a plan for extreme territorial expansion."

        There is, on the other hand, indeed a case to be made for the presence of 'conflation.' When Mr R postulates that the conversation revolves around a concept of 'territory,' in the geographical sense, rather than the more pertinent one of 'sphere of influence,' he guides it away from the central dimension of what hegemonist political aspirations really are. It is control that they seek – of people and resources – in the time honored tradition of those other Semitics – the Phoenicians – who once ruled an empire from the tin mines of Cornwall to the shores of the Red Sea, without need of or resort to the mechanics of imperial infrastructure that such as the Romans, among many others, had to put in place, lacking an understanding of more effectively coercive methods of control.

        The silver mines of Iberia, Greece, and even farther flung outposts of the moneypower were what mattered most; with them in hand, weapons could be purchased, along with the mercenaries to wield them. Politicians were bought or deposed with ease, scribes with pens eager to bowdlerize true history inserted into archives to rearrange the chronicles of our history to suit the narrative of the commercial classes. Nothing much has changed in several thousand years of history – simply more and greater means of controlling the minds of others, and wielding punishing methods of destroying those who remain outside one's grasp.

        Control is not achieved most efficiently via territorial conquest. That is anything but a novel idea. Without access to our own true history, and the wit to employ it in our own defense, we are truly at the mercy of the main enemy.

      5. @Lasha Darkmoon

        A Jewish Empire with a majority Arab subject population is impossible because nowadays populations don’t accept such subjugation anymore. The British could rule over 300 million Indians only as long as they accepted their subjugation. When that ended – by violent or non-violent means – the British Raj ended. Same in all other European colonies.

        The Israelis already have experience on a small scale with this scenario in Gaza. A minority of 7000 Jews lived there among 1,5 million hostile Palestinians. They needed heavy military protection for their security. Travel was only possible in armed convoys. This situation was unsustainable and even “hawk” Sharon decided to end it. A Jewish Empire with a majority Arab subject population would be a “Greater Gaza” and even less sustainable than “Little Gaza”.

        The Jews are already in a dilemma in the occupied West Bank. They would like to annex it, but don’t know what to do with the Palestinian population. Ethnic cleansing is politically unacceptable, but granting them citizenship would make the Palestinians the majority in Israel. Under democracy they could then easily outvote the Jews in all matters. The only solution would be to deny them voting rights and keep them under a form of “Apartheid”, but that too is politically unacceptable.
        This is the famous “Democracy or Apartheid” dilemma that currently besets Israeli politics.

        How well would a Jewish Empire fare with a subject population of 100 million Arabs either under democracy or apartheid? Under democracy the Arabs would vote their Jewish masters out, under apartheid they would rebel. Ask the white Rhodesians and the white Afrikaanders what the outcome of such a scenario would be.

        With your comparisons with the Pax Romana and the Pax Britannica you think too much in historical parallels, without taking into account that the mentality of people in the mean time has changed.

      6. @ Franklin Ryckaert

        Your arguments are exceptionally good and have enabled me to modify my stance. I am grateful to you for your input. So much so that I have incorporated your comment into the article above, allowing you to have the final word. Take a look.

      7. “With your comparisons with the Pax Romana and the Pax Britannica you think too much in historical parallels, without taking into account that the mentality of people in the mean time has changed.”

        How striking to see the concept of ‘democracy’ brought into the mix – as an explanation of what can or cannot be achieved by a political project with the resources to impose its will both by overt and covert means. Properly understood, democracy is a longstanding ‘word cloud’ under which the most divergent ideas and social forms can exist without running into each other. It serves that aforementioned ‘project’ enormously to have the popular conception of democracy – the realization the ‘popular will’ via electoral vote – be the particular ‘meaning’ which the word conveys.

        “The British could rule over 300 million Indians only as long as they accepted their subjugation.”

        The British rule of the Indian subcontinent effectively ended when the judaic stockholders of the EIC determined it to be in their better interests to have the liabilities of their companies fiefdom there transferred to the public purse, so as to better protect the assets. From that point on, the British administered the subcontinent, on behalf it’s true masters. Who ruled – and still ‘rule’ the country of India – from behind scenes.

        In something not dissimilar to the modern era of ‘false flags’ those same stockholders and political bagmen raised the issue of ‘pork in the supplied ammunition of the Indian Army’ to a degree of fever-pitched hysteria so as to create the conditions for a rupture in relations between Muslim soldiery and British command.

        When the crisis of the rebellion had died down, the home government was saddled with direct rule of the subcontinent – and an imperial project of ‘securing the periphery’ from imagined Russian incursions – which would come to almost bankrupt the home country while fantastically enriching the Rothschild/Montefiore financier types back in England, and the Sassoons et al in the far Eastern trade. None of this was by ‘chance.’ Nor was it exceptional from a pattern which has existed since the times of the Hellenic expansion. The central characters remain the same. Right to the present moment.

        Thinking too little of historical parallels, therefore gives a false impression as to what is of interest to the current crop of judaist strategists. Without history, we know neither their modus operandi, nor the means at their disposal to complete their goals. With it as a guide, we understand the weakness of politicians, the false front illusion of ‘democracy’ as a brake upon covert political/economic control, and the superior efficacy of controlling nations and empires from behind the scenes.

        “A Jewish Empire with a majority Arab subject population is impossible because nowadays populations don’t accept such subjugation anymore.”

        Exactly as Britain – and it’s people – became nothing more than the on-site enforcers and administrators of the hidden rulers of an India which neither accepted or rejected subjugation, recognizing only a change of elites, the modern day “Arabs” are neither invited nor able to express a popular will against any covert subjugation of their nations by a foreign power working through a domestic elite. We are seeming exactly this at the moment in Turkey, as the country careens towards a bloody civil war of the type which have already destroy neighbors Iraq and Syria – completely unwanted by its citizens and wholly avoided, safe for the dedicated mischiefs of those same elites – guided by the longstanding plans for achieving regional CONTROL of those whose ambitions we are debating here.

        Democracy is a red herring in the context of this debate. And knowledge of real history trumps any apparent ‘dilemmas’ in the domestic or foreign policies of the hegemonists. All such dilemmas are resolved by recourse to written talmudic imprecations against the gentile peoples. They too – stand as history – and a more solid guide to what will transpire than constructing failed analogies to Rhodesian white’s struggles, where once again, the British political classes sold out their kinfolk at the behest of the moneypower in real charge of events.

      8. ” wholly avoided, safe for the dedicated mischiefs of those same elites”
        should read – wholly avoidable, save for the dedicated mischiefs of those same elites///

        ” So much so that I have incorporated your comment into the article above, allowing you to have the final word.”

        I gather then that the ‘debate’ is now peremptorily ended now, rendering any further comment pointless. Must have misplaced my copy of Rickert’s Rules. Pity that.

      9. LD –

        ‘THE CITY’ is small – in London – and London’s Pharisee-Jew Bankers RULE the countries which have Central Banks and Stock Exchanges from there. Some thru proxies. The internet and all its mechanisms has ensured that control.

        Things are much different from even 50 years ago. New rules…rule the day.

        This is a list of sovereign states without a stock exchange:

        Andorra,
        Brunei,
        Chad,
        Comoros,
        Marshall Islands,
        Nauru,
        North Korea,
        Angola.

      10. the rabbinical talmudist and the sabbatean-frankist have joined forces tactically in order to “work both sides of the fence.” You will therefore find an infinite variety of plans, opinions, factions, and blind alleys when trying to understand judaist politics and asilupirations – which serve to confuse and misdirect even the most diligent searcher – unless you understand this.

        There is no “strategic” distinction therefore to be made between the Yinon Plan and the so-called “Greater Israel Plan.” They are both exercises in dissimulation – true & false at the same time. You need to have grasped the real dimension of Hegelian dialectics and Nietzschean rhetoric – as poisons aimed at the heart of the western intellectual tradition – to get this point, or else the intended confusion, which apparent contradictions are designed to create, surrounds all debate like a dark fog.

        Ormanci, you could have most people, even the academics … WTF, especially the academics, write this quote 100 times on a chalkboard and their understanding wouldn’t have advanced one iota from the dead zone they occupy.
        As always, The Protocols tell the truth, in itself a proof that they were never meant to be read by the goyums.

        PROTOCOL No. 13
        Into the discussions of these new questions will throw themselves those of the brainless dispensers of fortunes who are not able even now to understand that they have not the remotest conception about the matters which they undertake to discuss.

        Growing more and more unaccustomed to reflect and form any opinions of their own, people will begin to talk in the same tone as we because we alone shall be offering them new directions for thought … of course through such persons as will not be suspected of solidarity with us.

        4. The part played by the liberals, utopian dreamers, will be finally played out when our government is acknowledged. Till such time they will continue to do us good service. Therefore we shall continue to direct their minds to all sorts of vain conceptions of fantastic theories, new and apparently progressive: for have we not with complete success turned the brainless heads of the GOYIM with progress, till there is not among the GOYIM one mind able to perceive that under this word lies a departure from truth in ALL cases where it is not a question of material inventions, for truth is one, and in it there is no place for progress. Progress, like a fallacious idea, serves to obscure truth so that none may know it except us, the Chosen of God, its guardians.

        5. When, we come into our kingdom our orators will expound great problems which have turned humanity upside down in order to bring it at the end under our beneficent rule.

        6. Who will ever suspect then that ALL THESE PEOPLES WERE STAGE-MANAGED BY US ACCORDING TO A POLITICAL PLAN WHICH NO ONE HAS SO MUCH AS GUESSED AT IN THE COURSE OF MANY CENTURIES?

        Everyone should trust and cultivate the olfactory facility, especially those incapable of independent thought, the pedants easily distracted and misled – yet those are precisely the ones most convinced in their infallibility who see no need to examine the matter from various angles in light of where’s and why’s of dissimulation.

        They are cattle branded with hot iron that reads Cui Bono, yet unable to read it, even less understand its meaning.
        A Jew brags to another Jew quite loudly in presence of such a steer about its intended future use and yet it simpers there uncomprehendingly because of a previous pat on the head … did I not just yesterday post the picture of the Jerusalem city bus with full size Chabad ad that quotes the rebbe venerated in US Congress, the USA Education Day coming in 2 months in honor of his birthday:

        The Gentile does not want anything. He waits to be told what the Jew wants!

        And he is so right, isn’t he.
        Because the prime beef gentile puckers his mouth pretending to think and goes, “Yes, but didn’t the UN Resolution 666, subsection 5 condemn eating babies less than 3 years and a day old? I just don’t accept that Jews are any different.”

        Let me repeat: trust your nose.
        Because the nose has neither ego nor vanity, the stink of sulphur, rotten eggs and pickled carp is unique and the story unambiguous.

      11. Let me repeat: trust your nose…..
        when it inhales fumes of USURY and DEBT.. those tools used to implement protocols!!!
        Because the nose has neither ego nor vanity, the stink of sulphur, rotten eggs and pickled carp is unique and the story unambiguous.

      12. I think there was probably another reason why the butcher pulled his squatters out of Gaza, it was then possible to seal off the Gaza strip..

  6. I started reading what this great white anglo saxon protestant scholar and genius like erudite -Franklin Rickaert- had to say about my country Palestine about which he has previously said it never existed, even though maps from three thousand years ago were shown to him by almost every one here, (he mockingly insists that Allah-whom he doesn’t believe exists- gave Palestine to the Jews “a long time ago” and that its all in the Koran – he provides links and all -to what he thinks are 5 years old people – all from an innocent place called “My BelovedIsrael.com” -he does all this while also adding his own interpretations, as if he had sat with the great Mufti of cairo and beaten him at that, he is so smart)
    I started to read but when it got to ..
    “There are no indications that Israel really has such an insane plan. If it did, it would never have given up the Sinai and Gaza …”
    “Given up”? It wasn’t Israel’s to begin with lol it was land thieved in wars that were given back or returned to its rightful owners … if your christ murdering friends wanna change their minds and take it back, well, go ahead lol but don’t try to slip that old school subliminal one by with your zionist insinuations,
    Let me put it like this, genius,
    Every inch will be returned to us, and when they leave -if they make it- they will be forced at the airports and mediterranean ports to take off their shoes and shake them so that the soil stuck in their soles stays in Palestine, agabish?
    You gotta a samson option? we got delilah punk!
    I want me an apartment by the Mediterranean. Too bad you are so old you will die soon and won’t see this feast of liberty, freedom and justice in my homeland,
    but I will

    1. @ Avatar

      Maps of three thousand years ago of your country Palestine? That would be the Israelite kingdom of David and Solomon, not a kingdom of “Palestinians”. “Palestinians” were invented by the PLO only in 1974 for political reasons. Before that they were only local Arabs with no sense of ethnic identity.

      As for the Qur’an saying that Israel belongs to the Jews (and not to “Palestinians”), here are the relevant verses :

      We [Allah] settled the Israelites in a blessed land and provided them with good things”.

      [Qur’an: Sura 10, “Jonah”, verse 93]

      “Pharoah sought to scare them [the Jews] out of the land [of Israel]: but We [Allah] drowned him, together with all who were with him. Then We said to the Israelites: ‘Dwell in this land. When the promise of the hereafter comes to be fulfilled, We shall assemble you all together [in the Land of Israel in the End of Days]”.

      [Qur’an: Sura 17, “The Night Journey”, verse 103]

      “it was Our [Allah’s] will to favour those who were oppressed [the Jews] and to make them leaders of mankind, to bestow on them a noble heritage and to give them power in the land [of Israel]: and to inflict on Pharoah, Haman, and their army, the very scourge dreaded by their victims”.

      [Qur’an: Sura 28, “The Story”, verses 5-6]

      “We [Allah] gave the persecuted people [the Jews] dominion over the eastern and western lands which We had blessed [the east and west banks of the Jordan River]. Thus your Lord’s gracious word was fulfilled for the Israelites, because they had endured with fortitude; and We destroyed the edifices and towers of Pharoah and his people”.

      [Qur’an: Sura 7, “The Heights”, verse 137]

      So be a good Muslim and become a Zionist. Allah wills it!

      1. So you’re a muslim now? You now conveniently believe in the Koran, I am gonna ask the Sheikh and see what he got to say about this two “ayat” someone brainwashed you with

      2. Learn more about Islam and Muslim immigrants. Very informative website , it also has a very extensive blogroll with a lot of other websites one can learn a lot about Islam and Muslim immigrants :

        http://vladtepes.blog.com/

        Without wanting to cause any kind of brouhaha, I just want to say : Considering how jewed-out kwans are in general, in their thinking and behavior, it would beneficial to the USA at this present time if kwans would just GO ALL THE WAY with their jewed-out thinking and behavior and just goddamn BUILD A WALL on the Southern border with Mexico and STOP immigration into the USA period. Kwans are very jewed-out in their thinking and behavior EXCEPT for the one aspect about jew thinking and behavior that would really help SAVE the USA , Securing Our Borders and Stopping Third World Immigration Into The USA, all of a sudden the kwans don’t think like jews when it comes to that subject, even though they think like jews when it comes to every other subject. Very frustrating, I must say.

        Obama should dump the Muslims he’s bringing into the country in Hillary’s neighborhood, McCain’s neighborhood, and Graham’s neighborhood, the 3 LERV Islamic Jihadists so much, they can have the Islamic Jihadists they love so much surrounding them on all sides in their neighborhoods [ wherever it is the 3 live]. May the Muslims Obama is bringing into the USA GUN-ASS-RAPE-UNTO-FUCKIN’-DEATH HILLARY McCAIN AND GRAHAM. They deserve The Death Penalty for they are mass murderers. So do many others in Washington deserve The Death Penalty for the mass murderers they are, but it would be a very very long post to list all the names.

        Now, after starting so many wars in the Muslim world, after causing so much turmoil, blood shed, War, in the Muslim world, they want to bring the Muslims they’re waging War against overseas in various Muslim countries into the United States. They care not for the Muslim world, this is obvious, but they care not for the United States either, for they wage War against the Muslims overseas, while simultaneously bringing the Muslims they’re waging War against overseas into the United States –> The MAJOR Reason I oppose Muslim immigration into the USA. And waging War against peoples and simultaneously bringing those peoples you’re waging War against into your country is The Height of Treason, whether one thinks the Wars are just Wars or unjust Wars [ and Yes, I think the wars against the Muslim world are unjust, very unjust ]. But the wars against the Muslim world is also a War Washington is waging against us Americans –> We can see that very clearly in Washington’s agenda to bring Muslim immigrants into the USA from Muslim countries Washington is waging War against. Washington is also very responsible for this recent mass flooding of Muslims into Europe.
        Qaddafi was protecting Europe from being flooded with third world hordes from Muslim Africa , and Hillary and all the rest in Washington fully well knew Qaddafi stood between Europe and the third world hordes. That’s the major reason they got rid of him, not because of oil. The oil thing was secondary. Getting rid of Qaddafi so Washington could flood Europe with African Muslim hordes was the Major Reason, FIRST Reason on The List, they got rid of Qaddafi. So Washington is at war against Europe, at war against the Muslim world, and at War against us Americans, as Washington wants to flood the United States with Muslims Washington is Warring against in Muslim countries overseas.

        In other words, Washington wants to bring the wars going on in the Middle East into the United States itself. That’s the only conclusion one can come to with a government policy of Waging Wars against peoples overseas, in this case Muslims, and simultaneously allowing the peoples you’re waging War against overseas, Muslims, to immigrate into your country, and in very large numbers too boot. It boggles the mind, how evil Washington has become. They can’t hid their evil anymore in Washington, it’s becoming so increasingly obvious how truly sick and evil Washington is.

  7. “Too bad you are so old you will die soon and won’t see this feast of liberty, freedom and justice in my homeland, but I will.”

    @ avatar, Insh`allah! I`m not advocating the demise of FR here, just the return of Palestine to the Palestinians..

  8. ORMANCI
    Right !!! Following the jewish theories is not only useless, but self-harming. Why should we give importance to what we know is false ,evil and since the beninning based on the assumption of the demise of our civilization and
    The genocide of the Europeans. They probably imagine to achieve a safer israel for themselves weakening all the neighboroods. Making the muslims the pariah of the west , they will probably have their western dog guards in UN uniforms to protect their criminal landbase. I don’know in which way they want to institutionalize their dominion in the middle east, and I am surely not interested in the their motivations or justifications. What I know is that israel is just the base for them, the world is what they want. Ynon , Heortzl, Sasoon , Baruch, Trotzky, Marx Soros,Nuland,Henry Levy….they are just one to me . The jewish egregore which corrupt , degrade and destroy everything that is sacred to me and I want to preserve. I reject them and whatever they say .

  9. Leviticus Levity Time
    Porkenschnitzel ‘Coordinates’ Actions of Radicals Blockading Crimea.

    “I regularly meet with the representatives of the Crimean Tatar people, with Mustafa Dzhemilev [a Ukrainian parliament MP and a long-time leader of the so-called Mejlis] and Refat Chubarov [the current leader of Mejlis] as well as other activists in order not only to support, but also to coordinate their actions”

    although he refused to “assume any irresponsible responsibilities concerning specific dates.”

    Presumably assuming responsible irresponsibilites is kosher/parve.

    What do you get when you cross fake Islamists with fake Fascists?
    What kind of Islamofascists? The ones ready to rape blond Russian shiksas mercilessly.
    Vaselinessly.

  10. Harvard social psychologist Amy Cuddy:

    People size you up in seconds, but what exactly are they evaluating?

    Harvard Business School professor Amy Cuddy has been studying first impressions alongside fellow psychologists Susan Fiske and Peter Glick for more than 15 years, and has discovered patterns in these interactions.

    In her new book, “Presence,” Cuddy says people quickly answer two questions when they first meet you:

    •Can I trust this person?
    •Can I respect this person?

    Psychologists refer to these dimensions as warmth and competence respectively, and ideally you want to be perceived as having both.

    Interestingly, Cuddy says that most people, especially in a professional context, believe that competence is the more important factor. After all, they want to prove that they are smart and talented enough to handle your business.

    But in fact warmth, or trustworthiness, is the most important factor in how people evaluate you. “From an evolutionary perspective,” Cuddy says, “it is more crucial to our survival to know whether a person deserves our trust.” It makes sense when you consider that in cavemen days it was more important to figure out if your fellow man was going to kill you and steal all your possessions than if he was competent enough to build a good fire.

    Next, I wish to explain to good folks at DM what is the real and the biggest problem in the world we live in today – in very simple and comprehensive terms.

    Stay tuned, dear brothers and sisters.

  11. “Greater Israel” – -IS already owned… looks like.

    The Rothschilds own 80% of Israel, according to Simon Schama.

    http://freedom-articles.toolsforfreedom.com/the-rothschilds-own-israel/

    They[Rothschilds] built the Israeli Supreme Court. They own Reuters and the Associated Press (AP), the two biggest media agencies in the world. They have a controlling share in the Royal Dutch oil company, the Bank of England and the LBMA (London Bullion Market Association). They foment wars, install presidents, dethrone kings and bankrupt nations, such is their power.

    The Rothschilds typically operate behind the scenes. In the case of Israel, the Rothschilds engineered WWI and waited until 1917 when Britain was in trouble. The Rothschilds then promised the British Government that they could get the US to enter WWI (on the side of Britain) and thus ensure Britain’s victory over Germany et al. However, they wanted something in return: Palestine. Thus the Balfour Declaration was created, which is an official letter from the British Government Foreign Secretary James Balfour to Baron Rothschild. It states that: “His Majesty’s government view with favour the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, and will use their best endeavours to facilitate the achievement of this object.”

    There is a big problem with this. Palestine was never Britain’s to give away. It rightfully belongs to the Arab and Palestinian people living there. The Rothschild Zionist Jews came in, took over and forcibly evacuated and killed millions of Palestinians who lived there. They are still committing genocide to this day. The creation of the Zionist state Israel was massively unjust right from the start. Something conceived in iniquity breeds conflict down the road. It is no exaggeration to say that the founding of Israel itself may be the precursor to WWIII. [I believe Nam was WWIII, War on Terror is WWIV & will never stop.]

    Zionist Israel controls the governments of the US, Britain, Canada, France and more – and the Rothschilds control Israel.

  12. I just got off the phone with the second sheikh I have spoken too since I promised your poor traumatized soul I was gonna find the truth in regards to the Koranic verses you keep posting while claiming that this is proof that Palestine was given to them by Allah (swa).
    Do you know what both their answers were?
    They said:
    “Keep reading”
    lol
    Another person, very well read, less religious, said: “if this is true, why haven’t the jews taken this “great finding” to the UN who have issued over 119 resolutions of condemnation against what some minister called the shitty little entity?
    Another one, a Hamas sympathizer jump and said: “why are Hamas and Islamic Jihad attacking them then”?
    This all happened last night when I went to the local mosque who is next to the arab club…
    But the best answer was from the young egyptian sheikh who said:
    “Tell him to keep reading”
    Keep Reading, Rickaert
    🙂

    1. @Avatar

      “Keep reading” is an evasive non-answer.

      The UN is a secular organization, it doesn’t grant political rights based on religious texts.
      All its resolutions against Israel were against its behavior, not against its existence.

      No people of course would accept its dispossession even if a “justification” for it could be found in a text of their own religion. The Christian Palestinians don’t accept their dispossession either, even while the Old Testament is part of their Christian canon.

      Hamas and Islamic Jihad base their struggle against Israel on the idea that since Muslims conquered Palestine in the 7th century, it has become a waqf that may not be relinquished anymore.

      Nevertheless, these verses in the Qur’an say that Allah gave the land of Israel to the Israelites, which is an idea straight from the Old Testament.

      “Keep reading” the Qur’an !

      1. “Keep reading” meaning “continue reading” meaning you stopped right were you found convenient to make an argument, meaning that you “extracted” like a lawyer from the fine print, what you found interesting.
        What I think the sheikh is gonna tell me Next time I see him (he didn’t have time last night for he was in a hurry to do the Azan, or call for prayers) is something many christian pastors have told me in regards to the jews being the “chosen ones” …
        THEY LOST THE COVENANT
        Anyways, this has all been good to me because it had been a while since I read from the Koran
        You may receive a few” hasanat” in the afterlife

  13. Regarding the little debate they have here about “greater Israel” don’t you all think that its a little too late for such project, true or not?
    This little argument should’ve took place 40 yeas ago before the birth
    Of
    THE ISLAMIC REINASANCE
    -In Arabic
    Al Nahda Al Islamiah-
    The jews don’t even go out their stolenn houses doors nowadays so just imagine them all adventurous into the lands of the Islamic States or others
    Lol
    They couldn’t even make it past Hezbollah a few yeas ago!
    In the words of Hassan Nasrallah’s speech on Kuntar’s assasination
    “We don’t need the arab’s armies or money, those fighting and being fought in syria are enough to erase israel off the map”
    Too late for unity?
    Greater Israel Nevertheless,
    Is
    A no-go

  14. @Rickaert
    The young Egyptian sheikh went around the arab club today asking for my phone number and when he got it he called me saying “al salam u aleikum, brother, here give these Koran verses to your Jew friend” (lol he thinks you’re a jew)…
    lol here,
    “And verily, you will find them (the Jews) the greedier of mankind for life..” [2:96]
    “And we decreed for the Children of Israel in the Scripture, that indeed you would do mischief on the earth twice and you will become tyrants and extremely arrogant! So, when the promise came for the first of the two, We sent against you slaves of Ours given to terrible warfare. They entered the very innermost parts of your homes. And it was a promise (completely) fulfilled. Then We gave you once again, a return of victory over them. And We helped you with wealth and children and made you more numerous in manpower. (And We said): ‘If you do well, you do good for your ownselves, and if you do evil (you do it) against yourselves’. Then, when the second promise came to pass, (We permitted your enemies) to make your faces sorrowful and to enter the mosque (of Jerusalem) as they had entered it before, and to destroy with utter destruction all that fell in their hands. [And We Said in the Taurat (Torah)]: ‘It may be that your Lord may show mercy unto you, but if you return (to sins), We shall return (to Our Punishment). And We have made Hell a prison for the disbelievers” [Qur’an 17:4-8].

    ———————————-
    ‘And when there came to them (the Jews), a Book (this Qur’an) from Allah confirming what is with them [Torah and the Gospel], although a foretime they had invoked Allah [for coming of Muhammad (saws] in order to gain victory over those who disbelieved, then when there came to them that which they had recognized, they disbelieved in it. So let the Curse of Allah be on the disbelievers. How bad is that for which they have sold their ownselves, that they should disbelieve in that which Allah has revealed (the Qur’an), grudging that Allah should reveal of His Grace unto whom He wills of His slaves. So they have drawn on themselves wrath upon wrath. And for the disbelievers, there is disgracing torment’ [Qur’an 2:88-90],
    ——————————————-
    He also recommended you read from a jew scholar who writes about the jews in the koran whose name is Jochen Katz, he says ” It may come as a surprise to some readers to discover that the Quran actually teaches that the Promised Land which Israel was to inherit was Egypt! Before presenting the evidence for this we need to first mention that the words Canaan, Israel (the land, not the people), Judea or Jerusalem never appear in the Quran, which is truly bewildering and astonishing to say the least.”

    The Title on the essay is “Israel, the Quran and the Promised Land”

    But you are right, the bible does give them the land of canaan…
    “The whole land of Canaan, where you are now an alien, I will give as an everlasting possession to you and your descendants after you; and I will be their God.” Genesis 17:8
    ————————
    “WHERE YOU ARE NOW AN ALIEN”? aha!

    1. Those Qur’an verses refer to the Jewish tribes in Medina and other places in Arabia with whom Muhammad was in conflict. They don’t refer to the Israelites of the past and don’t say that they have lost their entitlement to the land of Israel.

      Canaan or the land of Israel are indeed not mentioned by name in the Qur’an, but it is clear from the context what is meant. That cannot be Egypt because the Israelites were oppressed in Egypt and were trying to escape from it. That is what the whole book of Exodus is about.

      Personally I don’t believe in the Bible or the Qur’an, but since Muslims do, I only want to point out that their Qur’an is of no help to deny the Jews the right to live in Palestine.

      The Jews really have historical ties with Palestine, in that sense they are no “foreigners”. Only thing is that during their 1813 years of absence from the land other people have settled there and they have lived there long enough to have acquired historical rights. That is the core of the problem.

  15. Let’s take a simple look at what this really is:

    For all intents and purposes it isn’t even about the bogus State of Israel, whose existence has always served as what amounts to a ploy. In the end, plans for a “Greater Israel” boils down to the “West” ( ironically led by Khazarian descendants) jockeying into position for military confrontations to move in two primary directions – towards Russia and Iran and causing a widespread chain reaction (“World War 3”)

    When the bear and the hawk consider themselves to be checked, all hell breaks loose before “checkmate”.

    But whose doomed King is it, anyway?

  16. Is Franklin Ryckaert a Zionist shill or just naive?

    Underlying Mr. Ryckaert’s complex argument is the simple assertion that jews don’t conspire and jews don’t lie, and therefore we can all relax because the concept of “Greater Israel” (i.e. Zionist expansion) is just another nutty goy conspiracy. Yeah, right.

    This is not the first time that Mr. Ryckaert’s intentions on this site has been questioned. As recently as 6 weeks ago, it came up on the thread of “How Israel and ISIS are joined at the hip”. I refer Darkmooners to the comment by Sardonicus: https://www.darkmoon.me/2015/how-israel-and-isis-are-joined-at-the-hip/#comment-911728

    I do not know if Ryckaert is a Zionist shill, but I do know he is a very good bullshitter. Indeed, he is very good with words, but, alas, not so good with maps. Here is a map of raw and naked Zionist expansion — Greater Israel within Tiny Israel or Israel Proper, so to speak — since 1948. http://palsolidarity.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/shrinking-map-of-palestine.png

    BTW, this is not the first time Frankie has had trouble reading maps. He asserted (in the above-mentioned thread) that Palestine and or Palestinians never existed until the early 1970s. LOL!
    https://www.darkmoon.me/2015/how-israel-and-isis-are-joined-at-the-hip/#comment-911765

    1. @Justice for Chinese

      Can you read? The question was whether Israel has a plan to expand its territory FROM THE NILE TO THE EUPHRATES or not. See the red lines on the map at the top of the article. The expansion of Jewish owned territory from 1947 to the present WITHIN HISTORICAL PALESTINE was not the question. The likelihood for an Israeli plan for territorial expansion from the Nile to the Euphrates lies not in the degree of wickedness of the Jews but in the military, political and demographic possibilities of such a plan. If that is too difficult to understand?

      1. “Can you read?”

        Ah! You find in Massa R no blanket condescension to his imagined inferiors! He does us the courtesy of tailoring them to the circumstance. These small details make all the difference.

        In my own case, the preference is to simply pretend to not notice the arguments of the other. As if they are not even there! And with connivance of those who matter most on these pages – that device can be pulled off! For a while, anyways.

        Then, gradually the question will come round full circle. Can Massa R read? Or does he simply choose not to, as a way of skirting the points raised by those fully capable of disposing of his arguments?

        “The likelihood for an Israeli plan for territorial expansion from the Nile to the Euphrates lies not in the degree of wickedness of the Jews but in the military, political and demographic possibilities of such a plan.”

        The likelihood for “……….Euphrates” lies not in the “military……………demographic possibilities” of such a plan, but rather, in the historical record which details the talmudic-sionist Weltanschauung, and their relationship to the gentile within that viewpoint. Fulfillment of the complete implications of said viewpoint is a matter of time, and the extraction of sufficient resources and strength from those gentile populations to prepare the ground for subsumation of their diverse sovereignties.

        In classic dialectical fashion, our resident dissembler steers our attention to the false paradox – the ‘wickedness’ straw man pitted against the ‘demographic’ straw man. A conflagration without a match! The illusionist trick thus devised has worked so far – much as the French-imposed puppet state of Napoleons brother worked – for a time – in the Peninsular War of Spain, 1806-14. Yet just as those French Hussars who rode boldly through the Cantabrians without deigning to ‘see’ the watching and waiting eyes of their guerrillero foes, ended of course, dragged from their saddles and ‘neutralized’ …

        so our grandee of the moment here will choose to ‘not notice’ the presence of an argument which will erode both his ascendance and his confidence of mastery – until too late in the day to stave off disaster! Tis a wonderful thing, to watch the doomed build their own mausoleum, able to read yet pretending not to…
        knowing that in the end, history will dispose… of those who sought to dispose… of history.

        It is not a case, JFC, of Massa R being a ‘shill’ or worse…. now that we have established the power of kabbalist black magic to operate inside of the minds of each and every of its victims in the fallen lands, he, like every one else there, can be merely activated at will to speak to the agenda which the mind controllers deem most suitable to their purpose. He is their victim, not their agent, although in truth, there is in the end little to distinguish between the two in effect!

        Wonder when the very first trickle of sweat will break out, that moment when he at last realizes that all will not go according to the plan which produced this abortion of a ‘debate?’ Let us settle back into the rocks to watch and wait.

        The Fatal Knot: The Guerrilla War in Navarre and the Defeat of Napoleon in Spain – John Lawrence Tone – UNC Press …. good read, that one!

      2. @Ormanci

        I would advise you to write in a more clear language instead of trying to impress us with convoluted parlance.

        What I gather from you is that you say : Jews are not only wicked enough to try such a plan, they are also foolish enough to try it, like Napoleon was foolish in Spain.

        Well you could find more parallels in history of foolish endeavors, that doesn’t prove that the Israelis are also foolish. Of course I don’t know the secret deliberations of Israel’s strategists, but from Israel’s behavior thus far I conclude that they don’t try to achieve the impossible.

        The demographic argument is no “strawman”. In the unlikely case that they would succeed in militarily defeating all the countries concerned (they couldn’t defeat even tiny Hizbollah in South Lebanon in 2006, remember?), in the even more unlikely case that they could succeed in ethnically cleansing the conquered territory of its 100 million inhabitants, they still wouldn’t have enough people to populate the enormous stretch of land from the Nile to the Euphrates, since there are only some 14 million Jews in the world, and not all would be willing to settle there.

        Thanks for not accusing me of being a “shill or worse” but merely a “victim of mental kabbalistic magic” (sic). In the unlikely case of your coming to your senses, you would conclude that what you now consider to be “kabbalistic magic” is simply common sense.

      3. Try to remember a couple of things Franklin –

        Your “advice,” unless I solicit it first, has no place in our tete a tete.

        Secondly, shallow efforts to shift the subject from the message to the messenger will not serve you in this matter – we are not children, and the tricks of childish nature will not pass muster.

        I have zero interest in or need to ‘impress’ you – what I am doing in my comment is impressing upon you that your failure to even acknowledge the points which have been directed against your case – let alone successfully rebut those points, has left you in a position more precarious than you had previously imagined. Is that too difficult to understand? If it is, I will rephrase it for your benefit….

        you having already lost, hands down the snippet of actual ‘debate’ which has taken place so far outside the control of the powers which be here, and have sallied forth at last to acknowledge the presence of the party whom you lost it to. In acknowledging that party at last, and that there is in fact need of responding to them – you have placed yourself outside of the protection which previously you sheltered in here. I won that debate simply by responding to the other parties argument point by point, and refuting it. You did not.

        The need to respond to the points which countered yours – and left you the clear loser to any objective viewer here – has begun to dawn upon you. Indeed, your credibility, once outside the protected status of prize poodle here, is at stake! Who could have imagined things getting so … off course?

        That will be your first task. Move the cursor up above to where I belatedly joined a conversation to which my name was attached yet that I was not invited to participate in, and then start to absorb the many elements of your argument which were countered – not conceded, as was the hostess’ gambit – point by point. Then, if you choose begin your response. That is how debate works, not by pretending that the other party has not entered the debate. That was very silly of you Franklin.

        Although it seems you may indeed be a silly man, you are by no means a stupid one – therefore I know that you have absorbed everything I have said to you in the comment above, and are now appraised of the fate which you have woven yourself. It is my wish that you continue in your mode of ignoring my presence here for the moment, until you have caught up to where the real debate – between the invited participants – NOT YOU AND THE PUTATIVE REFEREE OF IT – began. When you have negotiated your way through the points which effectively demolished your previous argument and have figure out how to refashion a more successful one, come back and let us know that. No polemics about me, or the rest of the stuff and nonsense you are used to being able to pass off here to more naive folk. That’s over.

        I am currently working on a more substantive review of your expressed desire that we keep history – and our very western traditions of knowledge out of the debate in order to aid your case. You revealing that wish spurred me into a lot of thinking which has tied some loose ends together very nicely. Therefore, at the time and place of my choosing, next time, not yours, nor your protectors, we will indeed reconvene, in order to give the audience a chance to decide for themselves –

        has ‘democracy’ and the modern era indeed trumped the need to use ‘historical parallels’ as a guide to the present? Our is wishing it so an indication of a fear of what that history can show us, in buttressing arguments that sionist plans of ‘expansion’ are not a matter of either demographics or military might?

        The truth will out, Franklin, sooner or later, and your ill-executed efforts to use contempt for the other as a tool of debate will be a subject of some recrimination on your part, I believe. For my part, I am grateful for them, as they have spurred me out of my usual torpor, and served to enliven both quill n quiver!

        To debate! Real debate this time Franklin.

      4. Not wishing to steal anyone’s thunder, the following quote, easily sourced and even easier to validate wrt subsequent development will undoubtedly come in handy as reference:

        In 1492, Chemor, chief Rabbi of Spain, wrote to the Grand Sanhedrin, which had its seat in Constantinople, for advice, when a Spanish law threatened expulsion.2

        This was the reply:

        ” Beloved brethren in Moses, we have received your letter in which you tell us of the anxieties and misfortunes which you are enduring. We are pierced by as great pain to hear it as yourselves.

        The advice of the Grand Satraps and Rabbis is the following:

        1. As for what you say that the King of Spain obliges you to become Christians: do it, since you cannot do otherwise.

        2. As for what you say about the command to despoil you of your property: make your sons merchants that they may despoil, little by little, the Christians of theirs.

        3. As for what you say about making attempts on your lives: make your sons doctors and apothecaries, that they may take away Christians’ lives.

        4. As for what you say of their destroying your synagogues: make your sons canons and clerics in order that they may destroy their churches. [Emphasis mine]

        5. As for the many other vexations you complain of: arrange that your sons become advocates and lawyers, and see that they always mix in affairs of State, that by putting Christians under your yoke YOU MAY DOMINATE THE WORLD and be avenged on them. [NB: not talking about merely getting even with the Spanish Crown]

        6. Do not swerve from THIS ORDER that we give you, because you will find by experience that, humiliated as you are, you will reach the actuality of power.

        (Signed) PRINCE OF THE JEWS OF CONSTANTINOPLE.”

        2. The reply is found in the sixteenth century Spanish book, La Silva Curiosa, by Julio-Iniguez de Medrano (Paris, Orry, 1608), on pages 156 and 157, with the following explanation: “This letter following was found in the archives of Toledo by the Hermit of Salamanca, (while) searching the ancient records of the kingdoms of Spain; and, as it is expressive and remarkable, I wish to write it here.” — vide, photostat facing page 80.

        Now, if only someone could supply data on the Jew’s military, naval and air power of that age so we can compare it against their future conquest of various parts of the globe and see how it fits into the present discussion about Nile and Euphrates.

      5. Franklin Ryckaert flashes some temporary sparks of sanity by making some elementary, but much welcomed forays into the reality while the rest of the patients seem hopelessly lost in the “It’s the JEW, JEW, JEW” Disneyland.

        Ormanci,
        I would advise you to write in a more clear language instead of trying to impress us with convoluted parlance.

        Good advice. Being a rude Rus, I would say simply: Ormanci, stop practicing logical perversion and skulduggery – stop literary masturbation.

      6. You see, people, life is easy when you commit to saying the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. No confusion, no traps, no flips, no flops, no bullshit. Everything is simple.

        The problem we have with the Western Civilization, here in Russia, is that it is all about lies, complete lies, and nothing but the lies. That’s what makes your Civilization so disgusting to us, the rude Rus. That’s what makes its demise a logical certainty with a little push to the brink of the cliff from our bombers, rockets, and ships.

        It is not the JEW, JEW, JEW, our western brothers and sisters. It is YOU.

      7. Cesarean,
        I know it is you wish to skip over the actual substance of what anyone writes here in order to get to whatever element of your strange schtick is struggling to escape you at any given moment…

        but one thing in particular might, and should, have caught your eye about MY COMMENT in return to Massa Rs. To paraphrase…
        when I need your advice kid…. I will ask for it. Trust me. Till then, I’m telling you… not ‘advising you,’
        In the event that you have nothing of substance to add to the actual topic of a thread, just speak, when you are spoken to here, and should that event come to pass, do so in a civil manner. That is all.

      8. “Now, if only someone could supply data on the Jew’s military, naval and air power of that age so we can compare it against their future conquest of various parts of the globe and see how it fits into the present discussion about Nile and Euphrates.”

        Recently I was party to a debate in which the subject was the ‘existence, or non existence’ of “the jews” control over the Mediterranean world in the Middle Ages. As the party defending the latter position had constructed a great number of straw man arguments with which to attempt it, I felt compelled to assemble a couple of rebuttals which serve well here to DEMONSTRATE the manner in which the subject group were/are able to dominate events and peoples via financial power and mere suasion, combined.

        Were one amenable to allowing that possibility – rather than simply ignore it – it would be evident that the need to physically control ‘territory’ via direct, armed control is simply a ‘red herring’ in any debate about the intentions of the gangster clique currently ‘controlling’ a piece of turf in the s.e corner of the Med, in that manner. It would also be evident that our conclusions about possible ways of ‘expansion’ other than armed intervention would need to have had the help of a historical review – something which Massa R has attempted to rule inadmissible for the debate here.

        Exhibit A: How to get a piece of the action in a southern European countries’ financial affairs, and grow it into something resembling monopoly control … over time –

        “”Italian bankers that started modern banking in the Renaissance, not jews.” Apparently you are easily deceived by surface appearance: the diaspora of ‘Jewish’ financial personnel all over Europe resulted in a tight network of traders and their credit suppliers who ruled over commerce in not just the Levantine, but all of the Mediterrean countries[most particularly Italy and Spain]. Your supposition that those who held Venetian or Florencian citizenship could not and did not belong to a certain religious/ethnic persuasion is specious – and an abuse of the historical record.

        Medicis were famous for their protection and encouragment of Jewish financiers expelled from other regions. A Marrano Jew who ‘converted’ to Catholicism was adopted by the Medicis – his sons become Medicis by name and effectively made that banking empire – and the Popes who sprang from it – a crypto-Jewish affair. Black and white pronouncements upon historical truths are seldom capable of holding up under scrutiny. A more correct reading would be that “Italians” who cultivated the favor – and capital – of rich Jewish financiers leveraged that relationship into a banking and commercial sector which over time became almost the exclusive province of those same “Jews.””

        Exhibit B: HOW TO RUIN – AND THEN GRAB THE SPOILS OF – AN EMPIRE WHICH YOU’D NEVER GET CONTROL OF ON YOUR OWN!
        “The Crusades were a result of that financial oligarchy we have discussed above eyeing the riches of Byzantium and then inveigling the noble classes of Europe into a campaign to supposedly reclaim ‘the Holy Land’ – but in truth to act as their dogsbodys in destroying the eastern most Christan empire so as to retrieve the spoils to themselves.

        Constantinople. and the wide territories it ruled, would never have fallen into Muslim hands had it not first been fatally weakened by the pillage and marauding of its ‘fellow’ Christians – who looted, sacked and murdered their way through that city and its Christian provinces, on the way to building a pirate treasure chest in Jerusalem and then becoming a banking powerhouse back home in rivalry with the jews who taught them.”

        Christian crusaders…. Muslim jihadis… dupes a plenty with which to populate a chess board to your own advantage. No military muscle required… just sow…
        and reap!
        note to concerned parties: try to assemble your quotes from what the other party has written – not your imagination – btw there is no [sic] to kabbalistic black magic. I wrote it the way I wish it to appear

      9. @ Ormanci

        “…Your “advice,” unless I solicit it first, has no place in our tete a tete…”

        Well it does, because you don’t write in clear language. You seem to say that you have refuted all my arguments, but I see no sign of that. In what way, pray tell, have you refuted my contention that Israel cannot militarily defeat all the countries “between the Nile and the Euphrates”, cannot ethnically cleanse that territory of its 100 million inhabitants without making the whole world its political enemy and cannot resettle that enormous stretch of land demographically with less than 14 million people. And historical parallels of foolish actions by other people don’t “prove” that Israel is foolish too.

        @Lobro

        “…YOU MAY DOMINATE THE WORLD…”

        Magalomaniac fantasies of Jews “dominating the world” are nothing new. You can find them already in the Old Testament. They are mostly overcompensations of endured humiliations. In Spain the reason for that is clear enough. In the time of the Old Testament the little state of Israel endured frequent humiliations by its stronger neighbors. Those were then overcompensated by fantasies about the arrival of an anointed leader (the origin of the “Messiah” idea) who would defeat all Israel’s enemies and usher in an era of eternal peace in which Israel would dominate the world.

        Such fantasies are no proof that the Israeli government, which is concerned with concrete realities, has a serious plan to attempt the impossible.

      10. Here is my prescription for ormonkey again: Truth, truth, and truth once more – three times every day for the next three months. And no masturbation, please.

        It makes wonders, trust me.

      11. @ Ormanci

        If the Jews controlled the crusaders, then you would have to explain why they slaughtered the Jews in the Rhineland and in Jerusalem. Goyim seem incapable of mischief of their own accord in your opinion.

      12. 2 responses within 1 post …

        Ormanci, I agree with all you said, including the control of the Crusaders as well as the original blueprint, they were the predecessors of George Bush and Fellow Americans Let’s Roll.
        I merely wanted to point out how the lack of military muscle in no way corresponded to their actual power, just like today.
        The plantation overseer doesn’t have to be a Jew by any means and there ever is a violent uprising, it won’t be him twisting at the end of the rope.

        Franklin, you can go on all you want about how Jews and Jew State are reasonable, modest, just minding their business, if that’s your position, no problem, you are entitled to say whatever you want.
        However, when you say that Jew’s megalomania does not correspond to reality,

        Magalomaniac fantasies of Jews “dominating the world” are nothing new. You can find them already in the Old Testament. They are mostly overcompensations of endured humiliations

        ( overcompensations of endured humiliations, Wow! joke of the century)
        here is a small counterexample that annihilates your stance – either explain it in measured, reasonable tones, “nothing to see here folks, keep moving” or deny it outright by demonstrating the
        lie.
        If this was any other group, I would readily accept it as a pretty convincing indication of world domination.
        I challenge you to show me another group, ie, Anglos, who have even 20% of their representation in these seats of power (and mind you, the superpowers, the Rothschilds, Warburgs, etc are beyond public view, when did MSM mention any)
        And yet, the tireless Jew apologists never quit talking about Anglos who truly run the show – so step up to the plate, numbers! evidence! links!
        Or STFU.

        Not just empty blather and ad hominem, the sure Mark of the Beast.

      13. Ok, I’m back to my usual expansive and patient self today C-suction… so I see no reason not to help you out a bit. You appear to be back to your old self too… looking to start a flame war, desperate to attract some spark of energy into a bleak monotony of sordid self abuse.

        I see you are mentioning ‘masturbation’ a lot more than it would come naturally into the context of the conversations here, and that particular cri de coeur of yours does …indeed ring true. One cannot help but get the impression that there is no pussy waiting for you at home, that the air you extrude here is rife with undischarged … umm, emotion, and that the compensatory function of seeking love through abuse is high on your list of favorite personal psychoses.

        All well and good, I suppose, each to their own. HOWEVER… it must finally get through to you that…

        you and the various psychopaths who wander these pages pasting sticky notes, looking for partners in emotional disturbance – HAVE NO CLAIM UPON MY TIME OR ATTENTION. Nor is this site the place for such self advertisement. You, and your ilk really need to acquaint yourselves with the function of the personal columns. There you will – if not find – at least be better equipped to seek, an outlet for your various complaints.

        |Russian male seeks care and attention, will pay with(rapidly depreciating)rubles, or preferably, vile insults and abuse.|

        Do you get the picture? There are women out there who go for that sort of thing. Hell, there are guys who go for that sort of thing! If that’s YOUR thing. Whichever way the fence gate swings, do heed my counsel here and stop reducing yourself to a spectacle of some kind of Portnoy’s Complaint in Russian drag. It’s not JUST annoying – it is truly saddening to see how low the brethren to the East can sink, along with the price of oil.

        Bye.

      14. Franklin,
        I see that the totality of all my requests of you have been ignored. Perhaps I was imprecise.

        I asked that you ignore ME, here, while concentrating on catching up on the many points I made above on this thread that successfully rebutted your original argument. Instead, you are talking to ME, and ignoring the items which I suggested require your attention. In addition you are now responding to points being made in a general tenor, and far down the thread after the one’s you have not responded to!

        Ok. This is not going to be easy, I can see. Briefly. no I do not have to explain the actions of a separate group of ‘goyim’ towards a separate group of ‘jews’ in the Rhineland. Do you favor a radical position on ‘hive mind?’ Such that we have no need of separating the individual actions in either time nor space from each other? In addition, only in an extremely dialectically-disposed mind such as your own, where everything MUST be either this or that, black or white, could it be possible to suppose that ‘the jews’ either control ALL goyim at ALL times throughout history… or do not! Please… I am eager for a “debate,” as originally advertised here… not a walk over. Sometimes ‘the jews’ have had the ascendancy over SOME of their gentile foes, at other times the reverse has been true. Had you read with care my reprise of the Templars and their banking success, you would have caught mention of that dynamic right away.

        Anyways, I see that you, too, are now drawing upon the previous forbidden tool of ‘history’ to present your case today… does that mean you have modified your stance towards using the parallels of historical events in debating the subject we started with here? Or are you a fan of ‘selective’ history… such as that which serves your case, but none other? Just asking.

        By the way, there was a serious misunderstanding on your part about my construction and replay of your theme about the ‘wickedness of the jews.’ I have offered no opinion on the subject here, and it is beyond me how that has been welded onto my words; but this is just going to lead to further confusion, if we stray from the terms of the original debate. Which is why I asked you to please commit to either

        a) go back and review my rebuttals of your ‘faux debate’ with Ms DM… from before I was ‘visible’ to you, and then decide to offer a detailed counter to them, or:
        b) concede the field.

        Does not matter to me either way. I am eager now to move on to a more interesting debate, either with you or without – in which the subject I have outlined above – about history as a guide or an obsolescence in determining our view of contemporary judaic politics – is discussed in detail. Amongst other reasons, because I believe such a discussion may provide Lobro with yet another “key” to unlocking the mystery of how a population of so few have achieved the mastery of so many[I know that YOU do not credit that last sentence with any validity at all Franklin – do not worry about it, just treat it as an aside, for now,]

        Anyhoo, please take your time, make your decision and then let us know. A piece-meal back and forth such as what is happening here today, is not what I wish to pursue. The points I have entered have been towards the general audience, not part of our missing debate. My name was put up in the marquee above for a debate which has not yet transpired. Let us work together to make it happen. Let us not stray from the original premise of that.

      15. Ormonkey, ormonkey … You are not listening. Look at the size of each installment of your meaningless blabbering. That’s what literary masturbation is: absolutely fruitless and meaningless activity, except depraved self gratification that is.

        Depravity of all imaginable and unimaginable kinds – that’s what makes us disgusted with the Western Civilization. We are going to get rid of it, with all its masturbating ormonkeys.

        We have to – we have no options here. I am sorry.

  17. I agree with Franklin Ryckaert on this question. I do not see the desire on the part of the Israelis to want to have to hold on to such a huge parcel. It runs completely contrary to their expertise which is to infest and burrow into other societies and live off the host.

    As a matter of fact, I just stumbled into what I think is actually a big idea by deciding to throw my two cents in here. The Catholic way is to live off the Host, which is Christ. I think I just found the demarcation point. Christians live off the Host. Jews live off the host. There is something there. Because it is as different a point of view as Naturalism vs Supernaturalism.

    Either way, why have to hold on to such a big area when you can live in the tiny sliver next to the Mediterranean Sea and live the good life in Tel Aviv with all the beautiful people? And of course it is still a crime syndicate for the big boys there. I also think the worry, or promotion, of the idea that Israel may expand to the so-called “Promised Land” makes it appear as if they are behaving if they do not expand their territory to such a ridiculous boundary. They deserve no such credit in the eyes of public opinion.

    It’s just an empty threat that keeps stirring the pot and makes it possible for Christian Zionists to keep being deceived into supporting these ugly creatures. I forget the name of the area in Asia that is a part of Russia that was designated for these Jews. But Lady Renouf talks about it along with Bishop Williamson. We should be sending them packing for that destination rather than being happy they won’t expand.

    In the meantime what has been broken since 1991? Iraq twice, Libya, Egypt, Syria, Afghanistan, trying to break Iran, etc. Seems this has all been done without making a move towards taking and holding such a large area. Why would you mess with such success?

    1. They have already begun expanding, through IS. Remains to be seen whether their plan works, or not. The parasites do not, necessarily, have to physically live there, they only need to “possess”, by proxy, those areas they desire..

  18. God promised “the land from the river of Egypt to the great river the Euphrates….” to the descendants of Abraham. Today the descendants of Ishmael, Zimran, Jokshan, Medan, Midian, Ishbak and Shuah live in this area. (Genesis 15:18-21)
    To the Israelites, God promised the whole land form Gilead to Dan, all of Naphtali, the territory of Ephraim and Manesseh, all the land of Judah as far as the western sea, the Negev, an the whole region from the valley of Jericho, the city of palms, as far as Zoar (Deuteronomy 34:1-4) The occupation of this land was subject to their obedience to God. God never promised the Israelites the land from the river of Egypt to the great river the Euphrates.
    God has kept his promises. He is not a man that He should lie, neither is God the son of man that he should change his mind. (Numbers 23:19)

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