Lobro on the Nature of Good and Evil

In which our star commenter Lobro
reflects on the problem of good and evil
with specific reference to the Cathars

IncognitoI read a bit recently about a sect called Cathars in SW France and Northern Italy in 12th century, their brutal suppression by the papal authorities and their roots in the Paulician movement out in Armenia and eastern Cappadochia during the reign of Byzantium.

In essence, they proposed a duality of world, a Good God of the New Testament whose sphere of action is free, disembodied spirit and the Evil G-d of the Old Testament whose realm is the physical, material one. Their life was simple and non-hierarchical. They called themselves Bonhommes, meaning “Good People” or “Good Christians.”

This really annoyed the ruling classes of Europe—i.e., the feudal and ecclesiastical nobility. These were the ones that the Jews set out to corrupt. And corrupt them they did. To the core.

The Cathars, Bogomils and Paulicians were destroyed. Burnt to death. Annihilated all across the Mediterranean crescent. What role the Jews played in the destruction of these so-called “heretics” I don’t know for sure, but I do know and feel certain that the motive for this persecution of these fringe sects was hatred and fear.  And this hatred and fear were undoubtedly engendered, in my opinion, by the Cathars’ total rejection of the material world — the Devil’s playground of Torah and Talmud, so dear to the heart of Der Ewige Jude, the Eternal Jew.

I can’t find any point of disagreement with the Cathars, I must say.



My interest in things waxes and wanes and so does the Catharist issue, forgotten until something triggers it again. I am sure it will fall back into undeserved neglect in my mind’s attic.

Here is what re-awoke my interest in Cathars: lies, damn lies and metaphysics, fit for doggers like me who avoid hard work. In fact, even light work if I can. Metaphysics is the required pursuit. Reverse engineering of the moral Big Bang. What happened right in THE BEGINNING? That’s the Big Question . . . the Beginning, when the fate of the world was laid down with that initial kickstart.

Not to mention Hope . . . and Hard Work . . .  by the sweat of thy brow.

I argued some time ago, and more than once, that the notion of a Good God is wholly equivalent to a Just God. Unless we have justice for all, then we have injustice for all. It is an on-off switch: it’s all or nothing.

The world is clearly an unjust place. Moral corruption is as inevitable as entropy, its physical double. The innocent suffer, the guilty triumph. So my reluctant conclusion is that “the Good God” is absolutely and completely absent from the knowable, physical universe as we know it. Anyone searching for this Good God in the physical universe might as just as well buy a one-way ticket to atheism. Or adopt a Cathar-like resignation. A stoical acceptance that, if God is to be found at all, he is not to be found in the material world — which is Satan’s realm.


Why? — Because this material world is essentially the Jew’s World, the Devil’s playground that we are forced to live in. The Eternal Jew is quite at home here in this unsatisfactory material world, but the Bonhommes, the Good Christians, are not. Which is, of course, the essential doctrine of those persecuted “heretics” known as the Cathars, the Bogomils, and their like.

LD: The Cathars’ philosophy constituted a total rejection of the material world: a stupefying world weariness that amounted to extreme pessimism.  This included a profound disgust for all mundane activities, including sex and procreation. These heretics actually believed that the noblest thing one could do, when one was ready, was to fast to death. The quicker one could make one’s exit from this appalling world, the better.  [LD]

These heretics said it clearly. They set it out in simple language, in a way that hardly any Christians today can grasp because these truths are so unpalatable and so profound: that the Devil — the G-d of the Old Testament — is the master of the physical, material, corruptible, perishable world. And that God rules the psychic, spiritual, pure, eternal realm. Don’t ask me for “proof”, as anything provable automatically defaults to the physical sphere and is thus no good.

The Cathars and my personal philosophy, as it stands at this time, have a solid common ground.

LD: Perhaps the inimitable Lobro needs to be asked at this point: given that you are such a good Cathar, are you ready to renounce sex and fast to death?  🙂

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128 thoughts on “Lobro on the Nature of Good and Evil

  1. How come ALL the “honest” jews in the “alternative” media ALWAYS wear hats? What’s up with that? Very fashion-forward rather cute chapeau there, wobroe. Did you get in Paris? Or Milano? Or joo york shitty? Or on Dizengoff street? And why RED? Especially RED juxtaposed with the BLACK background. How telling are the colours. Real cute.

  2. Perhaps the inimitable Lobro needs to be asked at this point: given that you are such a good Cathar, are you ready to renounce sex and fast to death? 🙂

    Not so fast 🙂
    There must be room for bad Cathars or rather, the semi-Cathars.
    It goes to reveal the shoddiness of my research that I never caught onto their rejection of procreation.
    And if so, my observation would be, why did the authorities bother hounding them since they would have abstained (celibated) themselves extinct within a single generation?
    Yet I know that the Bogumils survived for centuries …

    1. Non-practicing Cathars, oh my!
      Still.. one might easily imagine them as relative saints, in comparison with the run of the mill, non-practicers.

      1. Thanks Phil, for information, much of it quite valuable.
        It is not clear to me how and why they denied the existence and possibility of existence of free will, to me the driving motivation behind this dualism principle.

        Anyhow, I added my own layers on top of that foundation, even if useless to everyone but me.

        My version imposes the requirement for the physical world, with its moral imperfections, in order for the entombed spirits to struggle free and in process contribute to answering the question of spiritual (God’s own) existence, since in the perfect stasis of the spirit world, no such dynamics is allowed by design, hence any further enrichment must originate in this world of prevalent misery.

        If I or anyone else comes up with other, equally or more plausible scenarios, so much the better.
        But the Cathars did their job.

    2. Let me tell you what i know about the Cathar religious organization and their project of collective redemption, in the Italian and Occitan version at least.

      Les Parfaits, probably a medieval mocking term, or Bons-hommes /Bons chrétiens as they called themselves, are those who have received the Consolamentum, some kind of initiation. They are not an organized clergy but some kind of pastors who cannot interact with human justice.

      The perfect must respect an ascetic lifestyle. No carnal liaisons, no meat products as it revitalizes brutal instincts, fish and vegetables for foods with numerous fasting periods, no animal killings considered to be the most serious sins, no lying or cursing, living a spiritual life dedicated to others.

      Then, you have the normal Christian, those who don’t have ears to hear. Marriage was not forbidden for the simple believers, only condemnable.
      The sins are basically identical to those of the Roman catholic Church but they benefit from an important indulgence, in respect of which they must reincarnate again as many times as it takes to be freed from earth material. When the Christian dies it takes four days to separate the soul from the body where the Perfect, le receveur des âmes, gives the Consolament to help facilitate the soul’s passage.
      The reincarnation cycle is called métempsycose. Thus, hell is earth itself in which the soul must circulate from one carnal layer to another, animals accepted, until freedom. Some Cathars considered that the soul could only be liberated from a male body, but it’s not the issue here.
      At the end, through constant purification, good and the grace of god would invade everything, that’s the difference with Manicheism btw which is an egalitarian dualism.
      In term of Bible, the Perfects consider Mary, Jesus and John the evangelist to be angels coming down from the sky, forming the three witnesses of the Fourth gospel, the only one acceptable.

      The way I see it, the main problem was not the reproduction of the believers but the reproduction of the Perfects because they were told not to fear pains and not to be coward in front of death, that’s why many just jumped into the stake.

      With that in mind Lobro, I let you speculate about what kind of society would have emerged from this religious doctrine and the reasons they were persecuted. Atm two main reasons, except the political context, are that they were denying free will and that the perfect asceticism was too much of a contrast with the wealthy lifestyle of the Catholic prelates.

  3. God (the God of both the Old and New Testaments, btw) has a Presence which causes the faithful to ENDURE the distasteful necessities of abiding in this world. Without Him, I could not find the peace-of-mind to cope with all the unpleasant realities presented by the worldly. At Hebrews 11:1 we read “Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen.” I find that a continuity of that thought buoys my spirit. I seriously doubt the point is lost on Lobro, since he obviously deals well with functioning in this world, despite his circuitous observations of its anatomy.

    A very interesting perspective, and in proper place on this site! 🙂

    1. Gilbert,
      Assuming that the same God straddles both spheres, ruling matter and spirit alike, results in a logical and moral quandary that Paulicians resolved by treating these spheres as totally distinct.
      It is this:
      If God is not JUST to every single living entity, then he is unjust, pure and simple, we have G-d of Jews who have no problem with an unjust deity that chooses a Jew on birthright as lord of all living beings that exist in misery only to serve the Jew – this point is driven home in Old Testament many times over – all a Jew has to do is obey the word (law) of G-d UNQUESTIONINGLY – I cannot overemphasize this point.
      This is G-d of brutality, of bloody sacrifices, promising perverse joys to his Chosen, if only they don’t moralize but obey.
      I happen to reject this deity out of hand, want nothing to do with it, even if it claims to be progenitor of Christ, which I seriously doubt, because Christ preached the diametric opposite to O/T, equality across the board, which is to say, a just God.

      Now, if this same, just God is master of the physical world with all its attendant horror visited upon the innocent, then he is not a complete master despite his best wishes, he is not omnipotent decision maker but is forced to hobble along with the flow of time like all the rest of us – can’t have it two ways, do you see this, Gilbert?
      Jews resolved it their way, viz, yes, he is omnipotent and unjust, ie, evil and they are his beloved creatures. No question about it, this is what they say very clearly and from the functional standpoint, it works – for them, no logical quandary.
      Of course, the further consequence being that jews are not allowed free will and they don’t really need it since morals are imaginary and redundant, just obey the rules.

      Cathars – and Jesus – deal with it by splitting the existence into 2 independent, non-interacting spheres as described, numerous references in the New Testament (or what remains in it that makes sense).
      All the stuff about freedom of choice, wanting men to follow unencumbered by threats and fear and promises, neither carrot nor stick and this is what I mean by HOPE, which they termed FAITH.

      I think I am digressing, can’t remember what this started out as … yet, both spheres are necessary and coexist in some kind of enmity, all things must have a reason for existing.
      The material sphere is one of suffering and coercion, rules of engagement laid down by the Devil, whom Cathars/Bogomils/Paulicians (CBP?) perceived as the G-d of Old Testament and a bunch of souls are struggling under its yoke, HOPING to escape into the pure world of spirit, the Christ’s kingdom of heaven, where wounds are healed and wrongs righted.
      But maybe there is a third way, whereby we, mired in the mud of physical existence can actually fight and even overcome the resident evil and improve the condition of the physical world, although the whole blueprint escapes me so far, all I see is the very necessary fight against the corruption by Jew.
      But there is no getting around the “Eat Or Be Eaten” principle, surely laid down by Devil.
      I think that many ancients struggled with these questions and came up with answers enshrined in their respective mythologies that were subsequently plundered by Jew and soullessly stuck into a mindless whole, which they called Torah.
      The story of the Original Sin, the expulsion from Eden surely derives from somewhere else, because it deals with this subject of division into evil physical an good spiritual worlds that are separate thereafter … actually I think that God created the physical world at the moment of this Sin and gave it to Devil to run in a sort of deal that exists outside causal constraints – something like, God’s right hand agent goes bad, starts stealing and usurping and is banished to a physical world created just for him to demolish while populated by sparks of consciousness fit to corrupt or save, etc, etc, , but I forget and it doesn’t matter at this point, only that jews stole the story and shoved it into their halachic swag, clueless and uncaring of its original meaning.

      Whew! Somebody stop me, the train went off rails … mythology is great fun and undoubtedly spiritually enriching but my way is to simplify the issue to the bare bones.

      1. “…but my way is to simplify the issue to the bare bones.” !!!

        I’m not so sure, dear Lobro. In my opinion, your excellent mind constantly questions and prompts, lending it no peace. Remember: If God created man (us) in His own image, we have been blessed/cursed with the ability to recognize various aspects of THE SAME THING, contorting our thoughts to follow differing paths questing for Truth. Thusly, “religions” are born. The more I examine my own, tortuous paths of striving to arrive at a solid thesis of “Life”, the more I recognize my paltry circumstances compared to the mind of God.
        Like us (in His image), He loves, hates, endures – but, thankfully, He, being Lord over us, has mercy and grace which He bestows abundantly. World without end, Amen. In that, we are quite fortunate, otherwise we’d be MICROWAVED immediately. (How many times have you or I been moved to rancor against our fellow man???!)(How many times should/could God have been moved to rancor against us??!)
        Satan forgot who he was in the grand scheme. We, ourselves, need always remember ourselves when contemplating God. Let us be humble. Once, a college dean told me that I needed to “take some time off, reassess [my] priorities, and acquire some HUMILITY.” He was right. Now, I try always to recall to mind the verse found at Micah 6:8: “He has told you, O man, what is good: and what does the Lord require of you But to do justice, to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?” (NAS)

      2. Maybe our struggle against Jew is principally a spiritual, rather than a political one.
        AH evidently thought so too but when push came to shove, he should have been more practical, less Cathar-like.

        I guess the fight against the Corrupter must be run on parallel rails, on a personal level it suffices to shun him, because a parasite deprived of host must wither and die and on the collective one, because so may people are unaware of the dynamics, it must be fought politically and militarily if needed, since the military is just a political tool.

        Losing is not a crime, not fighting is, fighting badly is criminal negligence, something of which AH may have been partially guilty of, not sure, haven’t done much research into military history.

      3. @ Lobro

        “But maybe there is a third way, whereby we, mired in the mud of physical existence can actually fight and even overcome the resident evil and improve the condition of the physical world, although the whole blueprint escapes me so far, all I see is the very necessary fight against the corruption by Jew.”

        Yes there is and those who seek to control the humans in their domain or the entirety of humanity do not want people to know just how much spiritual power to control the physical world they really have. Jesus demonstrated this power and told us that we would do more than he did which is why Jesus is the most despised by the jews. Jesus gave us the knowledge and examples to thwart all of those that ignore and deny the Second Great Commandment, “Love thy neighbor as thy self.”

        The book “Science of Mind” by Ernest Holmes was a key to opening my eyes. He certainly did not have all the answers, but he had enough to make realize I was not totally off base questioning the crap coming from the pulpits, the Old Testament, and the other jewish controlled sources like academia, governments, etc.

        The “third way” hinges on the reality that the power of the spiritual world dictates the physical world. Briefly, Holmes wrote that it is impossible for absolute nothingness to become something. Consequently, the only resource that the Heavenly Father had to use to create everything that IS was to use himself. It’s ALL the Heavenly Father, but his spirit is the power that manifested the physical, so the power of spirit is superior to the physical. Because of this, physical action can produce no spiritual results. Spiritual power produces physical results which is how Jesus did what he did while he walked the earth, healed the sick, raised the dead, walked on water, calmed the winds, moved unattended boats across the Sea of Galilee, etc., etc. If this is true, then the physical world can belong to no one except the Heavenly Father and the concept that the physical world belongs to the devil has to be a lie. If the physical world did belong to the devil, evil would have totally consumed the entire place long ago and there would be no humans left to make decisions.

        Those who believe the jewish lies of accidental creation have not seriously observed and contemplated the the perfect intricacies of nature. (If Admin gave me permission, I would post a 10-page document where science proves there is a Creator God.) Nor have they realized that humans are not necessary in those intricacies which is important to know. If humans disappeared from the planet, everything else would go along just like we had never been here. There is something dramatically different about humans in the physical world.

        Evil exists only because humans exist with free will. If evil did not exist, humans would have no spiritual decisions to make, they would simply be two-legged animals with a function in the perfect balance of nature.

        Why is there spiritual freewill decisions to be made? Simply put, the Heavenly Fathers wants humans to return his love for them by loving him because they want to, not because they have to. Having to love someone is not love, it would be no different than breathing. The situation is similar to the way that human mothers and fathers want their children to love them. As Jesus pointed out, the only way to show the Heavenly Father that you love him is to love your fellowman, hence the Second Great Commandment and why he said to love nothing else of this world.

        Without evil, humans would have no freewill spiritual decisions to make so the devil arranges through his agents, those following the way opposite to love, the necessary evil deceptions which requires spiritual decisions by humans. Apparently, being a liar and murder from the beginning gets the devil the ultimate lousiest job in the universe, no power except through deception of humans, no way to quit, no way to win, stuck on a spiritual hamster wheel until the Heavenly Father decides otherwise if he ever does.

        Since humans have freewill for the reasons just mentioned, the Heavenly Father does not intervene unless he is called upon to do so by humans via prayer (secret) or verbal command (public or private). Sometimes humans without the knowledge of their blessed spiritual power given to them call on the Heavenly Father in times of crisis with verbal commands and then wonder how they escaped the calamity. Then there are those humans who have made the decision to accept the ways of the teachings of Jesus know how to call upon the Heavenly Father for solutions. They are the ones who heal the sick, raise the dead, cast out devils, stop harm during calamities, etc. All humans are endowed with the ability by the Heavenly Father to use his power for the good of himself and his fellowman. The ones who know it, use it. The ones that do not know it, do not use it and even some deny it altogether.

        I have been blessed to witness people being healed and have done so. I personally know two people who have raised people from the dead in front of credentialed medical professionals. I personally know two people who have controlled the elements of weather for their own protection and the protection of those around them. I have done the same. I know that the Heavenly Father has given all of us the spiritual power to defeat evil no matter what form evil or its agents decides to take.

        The “third way” is available for all those who actually want it and seek the spiritual solution to all their problems. For everyone else, it’s business as usual, no power, no hope. Every individual get to decide for themselves. You would think that the decision would be obviously easy, but the deception of evil puts the most decorative wallpaper in the rabbit hole as a clever distraction.

        Since I have just exceeded by 1,000 word limit, I hope this was helpful.

      4. God doesn’t make deals
        Devil turned an orientation of spirit called “physical” into a means to enslave, and the fix was in

  4. Good and Evil, God and Anti-God. How would we judge or know good if evil didn’t exist? Also, think how boring all our stories would be if there was no evil for good to triumph over. The West, particularly the USA, takes a very Manichean view of life seeing a person or public figure as all evil or all good. A very simplistic view in my opinion. Buddhism posits 4 types:
    1. A person going from light to light. (good becoming better)
    2. A person going from darkness to light (bad becoming good)
    3. A person going from light to darkness (good becoming bad)
    4. A person going from darkness to darkness (bad becoming worse)
    All persons are bound by Karma, the law of cause and effect. Both Hindus and Buddhists, however, believe in an escape clause from Karma. The opening lines of the Isa Upanishad explain it best.
    “Behold the universe in the glory of God: and all that lives and moves on earth. Leaving the transient, find joy in the eternal: set not your heart on another’s possession.
    Working thus, a man may wish for a life of a hundred years. ONLY ACTIONS DONE IN GOD BIND NOT THE SOUL OF MAN.”
    In effect do not seek any reward for your good deeds. Offer the fruits to God. The Buddhists have the same view which is do good deeds without any expectation of reward. Good Catholics no doubt are used to the initials AMDG -Ad Majorem Dei Gloriam. All for the greater glory of God, a similar exhortation. And some believe the book of Job teaches a similar lesson.

  5. Synchronicity strikes again. Last night I finished Otto Rahn’s Crusade Against The Grail, and began reading part two, Lucifer’s Court. Thank you Lobro for the wonderful essay.

  6. Lobro –

    Thanks for the essay. I’ll use it.

    You stated:
    “Don’t ask me for “proof”, as anything provable automatically defaults to the physical sphere and is thus no good.”

    So…. I wonder why you have asked me many dozens of times.”Do you have any ‘proof’ of that, Pat??”

    Next time.. I’ll reply… “Proof is no good. Anything provable automatically defaults to the physical sphere and is thus no good.” I’ll add… “Guesses are better than ‘proof’..!!” 🙂

    BTW – Karmic notion….
    None could not know the fullness of Lobro… without the German stubbornness of Pat.

    1. Because you are entirely bound by the physical experience Pat, at least as far as this forum goes, you are thereby bound by the principle of proof in order to assert being in the right.

      Discussing the spiritual has never been in your ballpark as far as I recall.

      No easy escape, Pat, nice try.
      Btw, I never felt duty bound to join “kick Pat’s bum”, because I bear you no animosity at all.
      Even when wrong, which is not unheard of, I consider you truthful and consistent in your own belief system.

      And you are no friend of the Pharisee genus.

      Germanic doggedness and energy must be appreciated in its own right even when misdirected.
      After all, you and AH are branches of the same tree, now if the third incarnation combines the disparate traits in an effective and sensible way, maybe the German phoenix will rise again from ashes of self-contempt and get the job done.

      As for my “fullness”, it is only partial, which depending on what you meant can be good or not so good.
      I still got some leftover capacity to backfill.

      1. “…you are thereby bound by the principle of proof in order to assert being in the right.”

        HA!!!! Predictable. 🙂

        You don’t get off that easily, either… buddy… I’m STILL gonna quote it.

        I see that you are at it, again… still. Like a chameleon changes colours(for GF):
        “Right when wrong, and wrong when right..!!” 🙂

        “Btw, I never felt duty bound to join “kick Pat’s bum”, because I bear you no animosity at all.”

        I knew that, but, newbies may not. We’re faux-spatters.

      2. Careful with the fine line separating stubbornness from obtuseness, Pat.
        For those, likewise confused, I want to stress that the rules of logic are based on causality principle, eg,
        “because of/given that/since ***,
        therefore/hence/thus ###”

        and this principle underwrites the chronology of events in a temporal, physical world.
        PAT’S WORLD.

        When considering an alternate (non-physical, inaccessible within physical frame, thus “non-existent” for the purpose of objective verification, “objective” referring as it does to an object, ie, tangible – are you starting to get it?) world, a timeless, non-causal one, the rules of logic as we defined them no longer apply.
        (for the time being, the existential chameleon segues from one into another, not bound by 9-5 work rules in Jew’s sweatshop, this nature makes me a fit union shop steward to hear your grievances and present them to outside arbiter).

        Arbiter Macht Frei.

    2. Without you and Pat, Lobro, this forum would be dull, indeed. Without our notions of “Good” and “Evil”, we’d have no backdrop against which to assert our points-of-view. Therefore, there is ONLY Good and Evil against which to measure the characteristics of AH, Mr. Jew – or any other man. ALL of us harbor varying degrees of both. Not all men born into Jewry are evil, just as all the rest of us do not harbor total “goodness”. The very RELIGION of Jewry is what makes them suspect to examination. Be merciful. Be kind. 🙂

      1. Yep… but this begs the question: which one’s the Good and which one’s the Bad? And who’s the Ugly one at Darkmoon? Sardonicus?

        Or as the Chinese would ask: Who’s Yin and who’s Yang?

        In the Great Appendix of the Book of Changes, it says:

        ‘The alternation of yin-yang is what is meant by the way. What follows next to it is goodness; what has it complete is our nature. When the benevolent see it they call it benevolent, when the wise see it they call it wisdom, the peasants use it every day without knowing.’

        From Wikipedia:

        The I Ching (Chinese: 易經; pinyin: Yìjīng; [î tɕi̯ə́ŋ]), also known as the Classic of Changes or Book of Changes in English, is an ancient divination text and the oldest of the Chinese classics. Possessing a history of more than two and a half millennia of commentary and interpretation, the I Ching is an influential text read throughout the world, providing inspiration to the worlds of religion, psychoanalysis, business, literature, and art.

        Originally a divination manual in the Western Zhou period (1000–750 BC), over the course of the Warring States period and early imperial period (500–200 BC) it was transformed into a cosmological text with a series of philosophical commentaries known as the “Ten Wings.”[1] After becoming part of the Five Classics in the 2nd century BC, the I Ching was the subject of scholarly commentary and the basis for divination practice for centuries across the Far East, and eventually took on an influential role in Western understanding of Eastern thought.

  7. Although the world is indeed the devils playground and the Jews are not only comfortably at home in it but appear to be working nonstop stoking hells fire and brimstone, I still see the Natural world as a beautiful and magical place.

    1. Yes, I am also somewhat baffled by this and I think that the old myths of Creation, Rebellion and Expulsion attempt to deal with this.
      Milton’s Paradise Lost tries to reinterpret this dilemma.
      I only read about 30 pages of it and the language and imagery are so powerful that i am stuck trying to digest it.

      1. nice

        right up my alley of thought-provokingness in interpreting good old Milton. thanks for the post

      2. lobro

        remember the poster, sazzy lil smartass? she once admonished me for not reading my bible. know what? she was right!

        the thing is, I read the gospels for the most part, but in tandem with what I call my wilderness wildman sessions, where I sometimes exhaust myself with primal screaming. I highly recommend it as a great energizer for stimulating the heart and brain – then when I read w/ Indian pipes or classical music in the background, the intellect really comes alive and the thoughts that are prompted are in the contents of alot of my posts.

        Try it if you’re so inclined, or at least a reasonable facsimile.

      3. i do remember sazzy smartass, b-hawk and miss her, she was a scrapper in pat’s mold.

        As for primal screaming, i ain’t got it in me, voice not powerful, i’d end up sounding like a cat choking on teabag, tag hanging out the back end.
        TROJ does it on my behalf, for which i am grateful, finitely of course, infinity doesn’t come cheap.

        i prefer to just smirk from under my red UFO hat.

      4. Joe’s kind of screaming isn’t what I had in mind, and you underestimate your own ability to do what I consider to be a necessary method for “seeing and hearing”

        I should have been more thorough, though. My crazy injun primal screaming (with a lot of various breathing techniques involved) I do only on occasion. It gets me out of my head when I sense the need. Most of the time when I’m in the deep woods I’m meditative and peaceful. This renews the heart which in turn restores the grey matter in the head

    2. KAREN
      “…I still see the Natural world as a beautiful and magical place.” -Sounds perfectly well, you possess good vision.
      As for scoundrels “working nonstop stoking hells fire and brimstone”, – their fault doesn’t exceed their number.

  8. OH lobro!!! OMG!!! Oh Thank You Thank You Thank You!! OMG!!! What a Natty Daddy!! OMG!! I just never realized just how Smart & Stylish you truly are!!! How very chapeaux rouge-ish!!! —-> !!!! How entirely Fashion-Forward —–>

    How continental!!! How urbane!! How utterly sophisticated!!!! How trendy!!! OH Natty Daddy!!!

  9. @ woebro

    “There Ain’t A Lady In The Land So Fine” ;

    by : your brother’s karate instructor

    I had nothing to do on this hot Florida afternoon
    but to settle down and write you a line
    Oh, lobro, you wear it well!!!
    a little out of time but I don’t mind
    Now I’m eatin’ my heart out
    trying to get my posts
    past uncle’s Censorship,
    Your chapeau is so cute
    Oh my! I’m so impressed!
    I just don’t know what to do
    trying to get my messages thru
    U wear it Well doll!
    Oh Yes!! Simply darling!


  10. I haven’t read all the comments on the thread yet, But I will. In the meantime I already wrote this, which reflects a more precise narrative of things I’ve written before

    The noun, “goy” is also a verb: “to goy”, and an adjective – “goyic”

    Coil:) an earlier form of cull, used in the sense to select, or choose [Gaelic: to goyim, goill (goy)]

    Ancient Indian legends relate that an aggregation of Man was victimized by a “genitive sabotage”; characterized as a “celestial kidnapping” marking the beginning of linear time wherein their (our) essential natures were re-formulated. Culling, or “goying” methods were used, producing entities such as diverse forms of reptillians, and along this particular path, humans, in a furtherance of methodologies derived from an earlier formation of the reptillian brain.

    As it came to be on Earth, an interbreeding of humans and a particular strain of reptillians (commonly known as “nephilim”, with other appellations as well, too many to list here) resulted in a hybridized grouping referred to as the “chosen ones”.

    Coil: 2) to ensnare into a fixed, or constrained position

    On a macrocosmic level, the parasitic infection of a ‘goyic environment’ was spawned when Man was separated from his imperishable home in Spirit. This resulted in a state of captivity whose inhabitants (us) are subjugated through a manipulation of what we know as “DNA” in crafting versions of “mechanical man” (e.g.; hu-man and repto-man)


    Considering this predicament in giving credence to the legends of my ancestors, even the nephilims joust at windmills. Or should I say, chase their own tails?

    Yet, I sense a withdrawal process of..

    peeling away
    is underway

    A window of opportunity; and what’s 2,000 years in Eternity anyway, but a drop in the bucket to make it look like an ocean?

  11. “Lark’s Tongue In Aspic” ;

    by : l’invisible

    Oh wow man!
    Synchronicity is Cool and Groovy
    Synchronicities happen to me every day
    Synchronicity is like the Universe’s way to Signal to us
    we’re well on our way to becoming Totally Manifested Ascended Masters
    Synchronicity in your Life
    is the Cosmos communicating to you
    your Karmic sojourning of going ’round ‘n ’round in a Circle
    is soon coming to an end
    and soon you’ll be zipping around the Milky Way Galaxy
    on Golden Stardust particles resulting from The Big Bang, man,
    Ethereal Golden Stardust permeated my DNA a long time ago
    something like zillions of light years ago
    arrayed in Brilliant Hues of the Rainbow, dudes
    your Unique Spiritual Journey from being an amoeba to a slithering chameleon reptilian to monkey to a baboon to human to GOD is Complete !
    Oh man, Our Religion is so Neat!
    I’m completely smug
    and comfortable
    in my Pure Spirituality, knowing
    the Cosmos communicates to me every day
    via, of course, Synchronicity
    communicating to me on a Highest Astral Dimension of Cosmic Existence
    I’m way cool and groovy
    I’m like a Total Indigo baby!

  12. One waxes nostalgic for the days Fr. John ruled the Darkmoon roost. We need some old-time heavy-duty Bible-banging, siriusly. He left us, and just when we needed him most.

  13. “the Devil — the G-d of the Old Testament — is the master of the physical, material, corruptible, perishable world”

    – And you are correct of course. This is actually stated in plain terms in 2 Corinthians 4:4 : where Satan is actually called ” the god of this world”.
    It is also implied in Matthew 4, 1-11 wherein Christ is tempted by Satan in the wilderness and is offered “all the kingdoms of this world” as he says; ““if you will bow down and worship me.”
    Obviously, Satan could not make this offer to Jesus if Satan were not in fact the ruler of this world.
    Along these lines of thought, David Hume made an interesting statement about God in that he felt that God is either loving and impotent (as in “not powerful”) or else he is powerful and not loving, but cannot be both; an observation he made based on the universal suffering which is the theme running through life in this world.

    1. @ George

      “It is also implied in Matthew 4, 1-11 wherein Christ is tempted by Satan in the wilderness and is offered “all the kingdoms of this world” as he says; ““if you will bow down and worship me.”
      Obviously, Satan could not make this offer to Jesus if Satan were not in fact the ruler of this world.”

      According to Jesus, the devil is a liar and the father of it, John 8:44. It is probably not a good idea to assume that a liar is telling the truth in his offer to Jesus. Jesus’ reply to Satan was for Satan to get behind him which would imply that Jesus is the ruler of the world which would be consist with Jesus being the creator of this world according to John, Chapter 1.

      Who benefits from believing that the devil rules the world? Just the devil.

    1. @ TROJ

      Thanks for the video. Most refreshing. I agree Lobro has good taste in hats. Red suits him. 🙂

    2. TROJ, it was Lasha who chose that divine hat for me, rather than a cowboy hat or a turban or g-d forbid, a yarmulkee which would require me to also wear eau-de-jew chicken flavored aftershave that you could scratch-n-sniff off the monitor.

      Red is the cardinal color, a prelate, a prince of the church, not too fitting for a humble Cathar but if it fits, I’ll wear it because i am of broad scope, yesterday I was humble but today I’ll be arrogant, just to please you.

      Just don’t stub your toe on all those exclamation marks, they look sharp and painful.

      1. Good and Evil intertwined, Good and Evil interweaved, growing, encircling, spiraling up The Tree of Life. One hears two distinct songs emitting from the lofty perch on The Tree of Life, two distinct songs from the very same bird, as our Eminent Cardinal Lobro wisely reminds us,


        Be careful as you bob bob bob along on those pine tree branches, lobro. Pine tree branches are sharp and painful.

      2. “Live and Let Die”

        by : 007

        ~ when you’re young and your Life is an open book, you used to say Live and Let Live ~
        when I was young and my Karmic Journey was ahead of me
        I told my parents
        Hey! don’t read me any xtian lullabies
        I’m totally over it
        STOP being squares
        I want to hear about Peter Pan before I go to bed
        My parents, unfortunately, didn’t have a raised Consciousness like me
        even back then I was I AM who I AM
        while the other kids were acting like assh*les
        I was zipping around The Cosmos
        becoming One with The Universal Electricity
        that Flows Harmonically
        through my DNA
        bringing Me Light
        no one else can see
        I try my best to share my Ascended Knowledge and Wisdom and Spirituality
        to a world infamous for being stuck in the muddy morass of your own willful selfish pig-headedness
        not my problem, I told my parents
        I want to hear about Peter Pan
        the GOD of Sufi North Africa and ancient mormo Turkey
        and play me some trance tunes over and over
        OH MAN, I just dig Lasha!
        Her PRE xtian mormo religion of Pre xtian Turkey
        how, at night, without even any Moon light, she goes out
        in the black darkness, How Brave!!
        she walks among the tombs of the lost souls of the living dead
        and communicates via necromancy
        OH WOW man!!!
        Lasha’s consciousness is so raised
        she can communicate with the dead
        and bring back messages from The Other Side
        important information from Other Worlds
        to further us along Our very own Unique and Individual Spiritual Journeys
        Plus, assisting us in defeating the New World Order
        I just LERV how Darkmooners go ’round ‘n round
        in Eternal Circular Motions In Harmony with the Orbital motions
        of the Planets
        Going ’round ‘n ’round Eternally in Circles
        It’s totally where it’s at on a High Spiritual Dimension of Cosmic Existence
        Like when I was a kid
        I totally digged The Twilight Zone
        the only teevee show I could get into
        the other teevee shows were totally lame
        Beaver was stuck in the mud of the Matrix system
        and Aunt Bee put me to sleep Big Time
        The Beverly Hillbillies, not for me, that show was for the kwan bubba mookies, so stupid and so ignorant
        Well, wait a minute
        I almost forgot about Bewitched
        that’s was a pretty neat show
        I learned a few things from Samantha
        I especially learned a lot from Esmeralda, my favorite one
        Well, now I’m an adult and I know my way around
        no one can tell me Lasha doesn’t have her Spiritual shit together
        MAN!! How brave and fearless!
        Lasha walks among the lost souls of the living dead
        every night in total black darkness
        Man, Lasha is totally into Our God PAN
        a way hip with it savvy and smart Light Worker
        Darkmoon is one of the better websites in the Noosphere
        Keep censoring those goddamned Flat Earth Geocentrics !!! *grin*
        trying desperately to Distract us
        from celebrating Our Religion
        straight out of the joo’s Kabbalah
        while we simultaneously claim to be opposed to joo “religious” concepts
        they’ll never catch on to us
        that’s cause we’re Ascended Cosmic Light Beams
        the ones who do happen to catch on, however, IMMEDIATELY CENSOR THEM!!!
        That’s what I do all the time –> CENSOR THEM IMMEDIATELY!!!
        Hey, it works for me at my Ascended blog *grin*
        Just wanted to pass some Wisdom of The Ages on
        to Lasha who is such a doll
        Another Ascended One in The Noosphere!

  14. I already have touched this subject in a comment on the article The Fire Sermon of Gautama Buddha. My comment was a reaction to one of Ungenius. Here it is :

    Franklin Ryckaert
    March 21, 2016 at 7:44 am

    “…The Heavenly Father obviously intended a loving man and woman to have sexual desire or he would not have provided the equipment for it…”

    That idea is based on the (common) assumption that this world with all forms of life on it was created by a “Good God”. If that is the case, why then did that “Good God” create an animal kingdom whose life is based on mutual cannibalism ? Not to speak about the truly monstrous life forms one find in nature : scorpions, poisonous snakes, bats, all kinds of parasites, the dinosaurs of yore… If that “Good God” created the sexual instinct in man, then he is also responsible for the instinct of aggression. Merciless war among men is then just as much the intention of “God” as it is among animals.

    Gnosticism assumes that the material world is not the creation of a good God, but by an evil one, called the “Demiurg”. Human souls have “fallen” from a spiritual world into this evil material world, from which they need to be liberated. Sexual desire is the main addiction that keeps human souls chained to the material world. Of course worldly people will try to find any excuse to keep their addiction going. The majority of humanity needs countless incarnations to overcome their material addictions. For them “world confirming” religions or philosophies are therefore the natural excuse.

    Judaism is typically a “this worldly” religion. Islam projects worldly enjoyments into the afterlife (“eternal sex in paradise”). Christianity has gnostic elements in it, but is basically still a Judaic, and therefore a “this worldly” religion. The Indian religions are “gnostic” in a practical sense. They offer practical means to escape reincarnation in the material world, but don’t engage in speculations why the material world came into existence in the first place. Only the various gnostic sects from the Middle East offered explanations for the existence of evil in the material world. In their perspective the material world is the creation of an evil God, called the “Demiurg”, who was equated with the Jewish Yahweh. Man is a fallen spirit from the spiritual world where the true God is. But these gnostic sects didn’t offer practical means of liberation, such as the various Indian Yoga systems. It goes without saying that the Cathar “fasting to death” doesn’t really liberate the human soul. The medieval Catholic Church persecuted the Cathars, not only from a natural revulsion of a “this worldly” religion for a wholy “otherworldly” religion, but also because the Cathars were widely popular in Southern France at that time and thus constituted a serious competition for it.

    1. @ Franklin Ryckaert

      An outstanding comment in every way. Deserves an article of its own.

      1. As a Buddhist you will have noticed a “gnostic” element in Buddhism in the figure of Mara, who personifies the material world. His name means “death” (actually literally “killer”). There is a parallel between Jesus’ confrontation with Satan in the desert*) and Buddha’s confrontation with Mara before his Enlightenment. Satan tried to seduce Jesus by offering him “all the kingdoms of the world” while Mara tried to seduce the Buddha with sensual pleasures.

        There is however in Christianity or Buddhism no attempt to explain what exactly is the relation of Evil and the existence or creation of the material world, while the Gnostic sects abound in elaborate schemes to explain just that.

        *) Mat 4:1-11, Marc 1: 12,13, Luc 4: 1-13.

      2. that’s just it, Franklin

        we’re on our own in so many ways – but I like to think I’m accessing memory. We all “Know”, but the knowing is so often buried under layers of pure sludge

      3. @ Franklin Ryckaert

        I had written a much longer comment to you than the one above. Unfortunately it got lost before I could click on “Post Comment.” In my lost comment I made mention of Mara the Tempter but also of Vishnu the Destroyer and Kali, both associated with destruction. My main point, however, was to state that the subject that most needed discussion here was Manichaeism and its relation to Gnosticism. I am sure there has to be a link between these two topics.

        One thing is certain. There can be no rapprochement between Christianity and Manichaeism. The idea of a split personality God, half good half evil, the Ultimate Schizophrenic God, is, I confess, very scary to me. No Christian could accept this. St John in his first epistle says, “God is light and in him is no darkness at all.” I think this constitutes a complete rejection of Manichaeism, the idea that God could be both good and evil at the same time — or that there are two equal powers in the universe, one good, one evil, each holding dominion in his own sphere.

        I brood about these things a lot but get nowhere, lost in one labyrinth after another. The metaphysical problems thrown up by Lobro’s article are the mere tip of an iceberg. I have come across no solution to any of these problems either in the Oriental religions or Christianity.

      4. @Sardonicus

        There is in Gnosticism no “split personality God”, but two entities who are wholly separate. The spiritual God has no evil in him. Manicheism is a kind of Gnosticism.

        The material world is a “fallen” world, populated by “fallen” entities with different degrees of evil. Human beings are also a kind of “fallen” spiritual beings, mainly because of carnal desires. The fallen material world with all its inhabitants is only a small and temporal part of reality. The spiritual world is immensely big and is the original, “normal” world. The cosmic “Fall” is not willed by the spiritual God, but an act of the misuse of free will by a group of spiritual beings.

        The Indian religions have developed practical means to escape the material world in their various Yoga systems, but they failed to account theoretically for the existence of evil. Hence in Hinduism good and evil are part of the Deity, a wholly unsatisfactory assumption.

      5. “…hence ‘good and evil are part of the deity…”

        Well said in all, Franklin

        See my post addressed to hp on the Brahman thread

  15. I find these thoughts cathartic. I’m like totally on board with this “Cather” thing, where do I sign up?

    I gave up the material world years ago, trouble is the world is like flypaper in one of those 1920’s comedy films, it keeps sticking to you. The fundamental, and most difficult, problem for anyone is that of ego. Ego is the fountain of judgment. This is good, this is bad (evil). I like this, I don’t like that. This is moral, this is amoral. Like his laws, man’s morals are a product of subjective judgement based on an emotionally distorted world view.

    The Jews figured it out long ago, there is only what is, how one feels about something doesn’t alter a situation, but it may well influence bad decisions. This is why their morals are inversely proportional to white Europeans and why they are like the Borg. Things Europeans consider repugnant e.g. theft, lying, deception and other activities held criminal by Europeans, work for the Jew’s survival and advancement, so why shouldn’t they take these “values” as their shinning path?

    It’s all matter of perspective, of one’s judgement, or true lack thereof. Oh sure, Jews love and hate like everyone else, they just don’t let their emotions get in the way of achieving their goals as often as others (being psychopathic helps). Of course when others are harmfully impinged by one’s actions, then the perpetrator can expect a backlash at some point.

    The difference lies in one’s focus. Elemental man focuses on little outside himself, his interests, his goals are his only concerns. However, as one progresses along the path of enlightened detachment, they realize that what is gained or lost in this life is really of consequence only to themselves, but what is given to others is where the real value in life lies. STOP! ~~~~~~~~ Right now, stop and look around. Examine the room you are in and everything in it. Look at what you have amassed in this life, look at what you value. Where will it be after you are gone?

    Those who have gone through estate proceedings understand all too well how quickly the accoutrements of one’s life begin to evaporate from the moment of death. What will remain of your life after you are gone, perhaps an eBay auction? What can be clearly seen from an historical perspective is that which remains are the memories of what some have done for others. Whether it be Genghis Khan, Alexander the Great or Jesus, what they did for others, is what has been remembered. What others helped themselves to in the process is what has been forgotten.

    However, the truly great do not act so others will remember them, for that is no different in feeding the ego than the garnering of material wealth. They work so that others may advance and prosper. After all, how can one help (or serve) others when their only focus is on their personal attachments to this world?

    This is why mystics stress detachment from this world. In essence they are teaching detachment from how one feels about this world. One cannot perceive reality if one is attached to it by false perceptions based largely on emotions; and if one cannot properly perceive reality, then how is one to deal with the world? Essentially, most people are like Alice through the looking glass, marveling at things that seem topsy-turvy and do not make sense in the subjective world they inhabit.

    Here’s a small test: How would you feel about gaining a million dollars? How would you feel about losing a million dollars? Do you perceive a difference? Is there a difference? Enlightenment comes when one no longer sees a glass as half empty or half full, it comes when one no longer sees a glass. It’s kinda’ like that Matrix spoon thing.

    1. @ Arch Stanton

      Well, I must be detached from the world. Nothing I have would sell on e-bay. 🙂

      “How would you feel about gaining a million dollars?” I would feel really good because I would do my part in reducing the jewish monetary debt system by paying off the debts of those I know which would shrink the money supply. “How would you feel about losing a million dollars?” That was fun. 🙂

      To be serious, a wise individual told me many years ago that the only thing you get to take with you when you die is what you give away. Love is the only thing that fulfills his statement. Most everything else is just wallpaper in the rabbit hole.

  16. Thanks Lobro for the article.

    === Good and evil is the engine of evolution. Vanity Gods =====

    Replying to an atheist friend who ready the book of former atheists’ darling Anthony Flew, who bact-tracked on atheism:

    That God is revealed to man in in the laws of nature and mathematics is the central proposition of Fluck’s book. Therefore when you ask “is there any evidence he revealed himself to
    man?” then I suppose you mean in an anthropic fashion? Well, I would say from a conventional scientific perspective the answer is no. However if one extends the concept of observation to include, not just observation from the sense organs, magnified or not by instruments, and include perception within in the brain not relying on sensory input, then I would say *** maybe. In order to become scientific, such observation obviously must be corroborated by several brains or more. This is where
    the religious concept of Prophet fails. All-comers may claim to be prophets and frequently do.

    According to Gopi Krishna in his books, corroborated non-prophet revelation does exist within the writings of “illuminated ” individuals throughout cultures and history. Observations such as: immortality, connectedness, knowledge, vastness, etc. Krishna also wrote on the
    continuum between illumination and genius. To prove this he always had in mind an experiment to take 100 suitable individuals and put them through a programme (mainly yoga of mind and body) to stimulate discoveries in science, such as a cure for cancer. Of course the moment” of “illumination” from “nowhere” has been documented for many scientific discoveries and been “explained away” as the working of the “subconscious”. Therefore within this programme, proof of “illumination” would extend to biological measurements on brain, nerve function and spinal fluid.

    “does he actually give a fuck about good and evil”
    Accepting the definition of evil as that which impedes evolution to complexity and beauty, I think the end state being sough by the cosmos is an increase in the good. However local manifestations of evil are necessary to arrive at the end state. The savage consumption of a gazelle by a lion may be viewed as an evil by animal lovers but the athleticism and grace of a gazelle has evolved by the evolutionary stimulation of that very evil. The engine of evolution is good and evil but that does not make them equal paths for human beings, substantially conscious of what is good and what is evil.

    In summary, some general observations have been revealed but they are not anthropic. Krishna suggests and sought to prove that genius is also revelation. Good and evil is the engine of evolution.

    It seems impossible for most people to accept that the universe is not anthropic. That is the key problem with the God thing. Where does it come from. Vanity? Is that it

    1. good and evil is not the engine of evolution. This simply is a rationale of explaining the existence of evil

      evil represents a DEvolution

  17. @Lobro

    ‘ I can’t find any point of disagreement with the Cathars, I must say.’
    The Cathars where mistaken.

    The idea of the spiritual world(new testament) and the materialistic world(old testament) is a fallacy.
    The dualistic philosophy is false, it is in direct conflict with unity.
    ” Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done, as in heaven, so in earth.”

    ‘ What happened right in THE BEGINNING? That’s the Big Question.’
    What happened in the beginning is the fall of spiritual man as a consequence of disobedience.

    ‘ Unless we have justice for all, then we have injustice for all. It is an on-off switch ‘
    This is true, it is justice for all. This is what is now happening , JUDGMENT.

    ‘ The world is clearly an unjust place. ‘
    This is also true, the fall of man has produced an unjust world, a corrupted world.
    Paul: ” But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ ”

    ‘ Anyone searching for this Good God in the physical universe might as just as well buy a one-way ticket to atheism. ‘
    This is not true, it should read: ” Anyone searching for this Good God in the corrupted world(present corrupt world system) might as just as well buy a one-way ticket to atheism.”
    It is possible to find God, to be converted.
    ” Now we have received, not the spirit of this world, but the spirit of God. ”

    Paul: ” But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God,
    for they are foolishness unto him. ”

    Natural man is corrupted, spiritual man is restored(converted)

    The faithful witness

  18. Please correct me if I’m wrong, but this story of the alleged “Fall of Man,” is only related in Genesis. This book also talks about the SONS of God. Who are they?
    Genesis Chapter 6. Verses 1 to 4.
    “AND it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them,
    2 That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.
    3 And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.
    4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.”
    It quite explicitly says sons of God, plural. This obviously contradicts the Nicene Creed. “Only Begotten Son”
    I point this out, not with any intention of mocking Christianity. I have a profound respect for the teachings of Jesus as per the Beautitudes. An enunciation of absolute spiritual genius. My point is to the illustrate the dangers of slavish adherence to the the words of the bible. There are contradictions galore. One must follow one’s conscience and pray alone for guidance. Avoid pontification regarding scripture that has been translated and retranslated from the original language. Be humble. Nothing wrong with admitting you don’t know.
    Now to the nature of good and evil and why they exist. Buddhists regard these questions as unknowable and a useless diversion from the quest for enlightenment. Treat the wound, don’t speculate as to the origin of the arrow that wounded you. Or as Jesus enjoined, “Seek ye first the Kingdom of Heaven.”
    Regarding the manifestation of psychic powers, raising the dead, walking on water or any other experiences such as kundalini syndrome, which may occur when one practises sustained meditation. I strongly adjure anyone having such experiences to abjure from allowing them to be the focus of your religious quest. They are a distraction and lead to spiritual pride, one of the deadliest of “sins”.

    1. Felix, thank you. Yes we must always pray for discernment, and not blindly follow words on paper or talking heads. I know you are not mocking Christianity, it’s OK to wrestle with God.

      There are different takes on the translated words ‘Sons of God’ in Genesis Chapter 6 and their connotation. I don’t see any problem there with the Nicene Creed.
      Here is John Wesley’s commentary..

      6:1 Men began to multiply upon the face of the earth – This was the effect of the blessing, Genesis 1:28 , and yet man’s corruption so abused this blessing, that it turned into a curse.
      6:2 The sons of God – Those who were called by the name of the Lord, and called upon that name, married the daughters of men – Those that were profane, and strangers to God. The posterity of Seth did not keep to themselves as they ought, but intermingled with the race of Cain: they took them wives of all that they chose – They chose only by the eye: They saw that they were fair – Which was all they looked at. ”

      Also, that’s very good to know about the Buddhist ‘unknowable’ about the nature of good and evil. It’s similar to how Christians realize we cannot know God’s ways, that we can’t always ‘justify’ God. Some say it’s a convenient dodge, but as you say, ‘Nothing wrong with admitting you don’t know’. I do know, as I pointed out in another post on this thread, that we humans are responsible for the great majority of suffering on this planet. Not God.

    2. @ Felix

      “I strongly adjure anyone having such experiences to abjure from allowing them to be the focus of your religious quest. They are a distraction and lead to spiritual pride, one of the deadliest of “sins”.”

      I certainly agree. Anyone that elevates themselves over the spiritual power actually doing the real work is certainly not practicing the teachings of Jesus.

      The only reason I repeatedly bring up the reality of the access to spiritual power we have all been blessed with is that we have been brainwashed into believing that we are powerless because of sin. Of course, those wanting us to be powerless to their evil doings have an almost endless stream of sins that make a person feel unworthy to do what Jesus told us to do. The lie is that Jesus is perfect and we are not so there is no need to even try. It is a clever evil web that has been woven that only benefits evil. We have been brainwashed into believing the opposite of reality.

      Anyone that knows that a properly executed prayer has been answered or successfully verbally commands an outcome beneficial to themselves or their fellowman will experience a great jump in their belief in the Heavenly Father, Jesus, and the Holy Ghost. A person’s faith increases tremendously. All evil has to do is convince people not to even try and the increase in faith is prevented.

      One of my favorite questions is, “Would Jesus tell you to do something that you cannot do?” The answer should be obvious.

    3. Glad you brought that up, Felix

      For myself, I don’t go overboard with anything ‘kundalini-ish’. Years ago I was on my vision quest, where part of the instruction involved kundalini-like “prep work”; the whole experience being a once in a lifetime thing – all that was deemed necessary by the elders.

      But you’re right in alluding to how these sorts of things can get out of hand for some folks. Whether it’s too much smokin the ganja, using other plant substances, kundalini, other yogas, etc., it CAN become an obsession that defeats what otherwise can serve a useful purpose.

  19. @Duke

    The material world is not only unjust among humans, it is also unjust among animals. Stronger animals kill and eat the weaker ones and that cannot be ascribed to any human “disobedience” whether according to the naive Adam-and-Eve myth or otherwise. Predator animals cannot become vegetarians, their teeth, claws and stomach are designed for a carnivorous existence. This is a truly demonic state of affairs and it is not accidental but structural. The Christian idea that the material world can be transformed into a spiritual world after some sort of “Judgement” is an illusion. Equally illusory is the idea that “after the Judgement” those who are “saved” will forever live on in their material body in the material world, which is by definition transitory. Christianity is basically as materialistic as is Judaism. It refuses to give up the material world and it refuses to acknowledge that liberation is not in the world but from the world. It is exactly this attitude that chains human souls to the transient material world.

  20. It is folly to assume the physical and spiritual are at odds, or that one is some way better than the other. Science (some have posited the ultimate goal of science is the discovery of God, which seems to me a very roundabout way of finding Her) is beginning to understand through the study of quantum anomalies that the barrier between matter and spirit is quite a flimsy one indeed, perhaps non-existent.
    That said, I am a great fan of the Cathars and feel a visceral personal grief when I consider their most cruel persecution. Robert Miles, the Klan Grand Dragon and political prisoner was deeply influenced by the Cathar sect.. His “Mountain Church” was obviously dualist. The Cathar ‘heresy’ was never completely suppressed, it’s threads ran on through the centuries.
    The brilliant young Jewess Simone Weil who embraced Christianity was called a Cathar by Thomas Merton, as did Czeslaw Milosz in his essay “The Importance of Simone Weil”.
    St. Augustine, certainly no fool, was a Manichaeian before converting to Christianity.
    It’s appeal is very strong.
    But despite my love for the ‘pure ones’ (Cathar from the Gr. katharos, pure) I personally cannot maintain a ‘cops and robbers’ relationship between matter and spirit.
    For instance, sex can be a spiritual act, and may have equally astounding results when sublimated. As well, what to make of art that both originates in and touches the spirit, expressed in stone and paint, voice and vibrating strings? Where is the divide?

    What of evil and pain ‘here below’? 99 times out of 100 the fault lies with sinful humanity, not God. The Kingdom of Heaven (male reference here, you’re welcome) is surely at hand, close enough to touch, simply requiring a universal change of heart… and who stops it but us? You can neither blame God or say ‘the debbil made me do it’.

    1. SW

      I agree with your comment and thanks for pointing me Milosz. One nuance though regarding St. Augustine.

      “De Libero Arbitrio”, to Evodius asking him : where does sins and evil come from? Augustine answers.

      “You raise an issue that has violently agitated me during my adolescence and which, tired of fighting, has pushed me towards heresy and precipitated me into it.”

      He would always claim that God is perfectly just and that the source of evil should be sought elsewhere.

  21. MUMBO JUMBO, and it has caused so much suffering.

    The Jews called them prophets; we now call them schizophrenics

  22. Wot a wild and penetrating the corners – post ‘n comments. ‘Anyone searching for this Good God…’ Looking back, I assumed this. God good. I suppose. At least not, ‘not’. Wanting to know, as much about, the need for help. What I did do, was call. Be-calling, more and more. Literally a bit, but inwardly and outworked, ever-questioning. Something wasn’t right and connection with life, translating into yearning. Intellectual venturing was all over the place. The guiding notion, romantically held; The lone path was the right and only one. Groups of believing in a collective name, off limits. Had little religious baggage (otherwise). But God saw a responder.

    To this post, first, something I need to get over. Sometimes asked if I’d mind being told something, in the teller not wanting to offend. When it never crosses my mind someone could upset or wind me up. That said, I’m the tip-toe-ing opposite, let’s say, in commenting. Am I driving, who potty, and getting mad? Forget people stop reading, that’s what.

    On a new, trying to keep comments ‘short and say it’ (yes, repeat): Believe ‘Jew-ish-Jew’ is partly provoked (here) because the question is underrated/ not-represented ‘out there’. Jesus-theology doesn’t identify Judaism and association as ‘the’ issue on the negative. Somewhere here, read comments about the misunderstanding, the ‘world is run by the devil’. The devil lies, this the case. Yet obviously, verses express the far reach of this/these, influence/influencers. Powers, more or less, behind all sickness and suffering. And the troubles and terrors this site exposes. As someone else commented, this claimed ‘evil’ can’t be so fully comprehensive. Otherwise bad as, how far would – assuming compulsive – this raging have got? But for… And yet, as we concede, increasingly the problem.

    On the bad/other O.T. and suffering-unexplained looking God? Evidence leads, this built on Augustine’s overreaction and Plato-must-be ‘God is’. Me banging-on; The root and why of Zionism and… association. Got a tweet couple of days ago; ‘Far better to believe in a loving God who can’t stop genuine evil than believe in a powerful God who could stop it but chooses not to do so.’ Which I replied, ‘ Yes. W.said. And wld agree (?) – not ‘better’ but biblical, and can’t because-we don’t cooperate? How far? Promises distance.’
    A post to pore over. Great stuff. Thanks.

  23. @ Ungenius:

    ” It is probably not a good idea to assume that a liar is telling the truth …”
    I think it reasonable to assume that Jesus (an unlimited degree of insight comes with being Son of God) would be able to discern whether or not Satan had the power to actually give him what he had offered and also that Satan knew that Jesus could see through his “lie” and thus be wasting his effort in trying to deceive him.

    1. Besides, in all the tales, Devil never reneges on a deal, this gives him moral power to enforce the endgame (Kol nidre is jew’s recognition of this principle, the one and only time of brief honor), always bad for the human party, which is why I say that Jews are stupid not to see this.

      Examples abound, Faust, both Goethe’s and Marlowe’s versions or how the vampire, a diabolic form, must knock on the window of the victim to be let in and seduce her, and so on.
      Meaning that this issue was also considered at length in antiquity and decided upon by consent.

      What is interesting is that as far as I know (correct me please), Devil is never mentioned in the Old Testament. Nor Talmud, where Hell is operated by G-d, eg, Jesus boiled in excrement and/or semen – aside: because Jews are not allowed to masturbate, where would this “resource” come from – I mean, from which creature?

      If so, I will let you all ponder the significance of all that.
      I don’t have to agree with the Cathars plan of action to acknowledge that their analysis of the problem brings clarity to the issue, viz, any deity with a physical footprint, ie, functioning in this world, is either good and weak or bad and strong.

      So, the trick is to disallow turd in the punch bowl in the first place, good God omnipotent in the eternal, non-causal spirit realm, bad G-d in this temporal, causal one.

  24. @ Ungenius;
    From your line of reasoning I see that you believe that Jesus IS God. If that were so, how much sense would it make to say (as you are) that the devil can tempt God?

    1. @ George

      Apparently we have a failure of communication. What you “see” and what I believe are drastically different. The Heavenly Father, Jesus, and the Holy Ghost are three separate entities on the same team. As one brief example, Jesus told us to pray to the Heavenly Father, not to him. Since your assumption about my belief is not so, your question to me has no basis.

      However, I am curious as to how you came to “see” what you did based on what I write. If I am communicating improperly, I need to know.

      1. “I am curious to see….”
        – My mistake. It seemed that you were coming at this from the perspective of a “born again” believer. It is common to see someone quote 1 John followed by the declaration that Jesus is God, and it seemed to me that you were making the statement that Christ is the Creator, and that therefore Satan cannot be the ruler of the world, but rather Christ is the ruler. If this were your argument, it would be logical to deduce that you are stating that Satan was tempting God ( since many of the “born again” people believe that God and Jesus are one and the same).
        Still, insofar as Jesus is Son of God, it does not seem reasonable that Satan could successfully tempt him and both entities would be well aware of this.
        ” your question to me has no basis.”
        – not a problem. Don’t answer it then.

      1. Ah yes;
        “the votary of the Riddle God, whose One is Three and Three is One”
        (from The Kasidah, by Sir Richard Burton)

  25. @ Lobro:

    “What is interesting is that as far as I know (correct me please), Devil is never mentioned in the Old Testament.”

    – Lobro, Satan is mentioned several times in the book of Job:

    “Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and [a]Satan also came among them. 7 The Lord said to Satan, “From where do you come?” Then Satan answered the Lord and said, “From roaming about on the earth and walking around on it.” (Job 1; 6-7). Satan is also mentioned in chapter 2 of Job.
    Additionally, the Book of Ezekiel talks about him (though his name is not used) in chapter 28, verses 13 through 19 where it says in part:
    “So I drove you in disgrace from the mount of God,
    and I expelled you, guardian cherub,
    from among the fiery stones.
    Your heart became proud
    on account of your beauty,
    and you corrupted your wisdom
    because of your splendor.
    So I threw you to the earth;”

    As you can see, Satan was clearly named in the Old Testament book of Job and almost certainly was the subject discussed in the verses from the chapter of Ezekiel mentioned above. I hope this helps.

    1. ALSO…

      Zechariah 3:1-2

      1-Then he showed me Joshua the high priest standing before the angel of the LORD, and Satan standing at his right hand to accuse him.
      2-The LORD said to Satan, “The LORD rebuke you, Satan! Indeed, the LORD who has chosen Jerusalem rebuke you! Is this not a brand plucked from the fire?”


    2. Well yes, but as you know, Torah contains a wealth of foreign material pilfered from predating, antique sources, much of it thoughtlessly refurbished for blatantly Jew-serving narrative and viewed alongside other books, they stick out incongruously, Job being a prime example, I guess Genesis is another (I never read through any of them end to end, only glanced at some due to low threshold for self aggrandizement and malice).
      So, the Devil makes a cameo appearance as an irrelevant afterthought, whereas in the New Testament he is very central, practically in duality with Jesus, especially when you consider that in every line evil is either identified or berated, whereas even in the quoted Ezekiel, Devil is kicked to the curb for disobedience rather than inherent wickedness.

      1. Lobro –

        “What is interesting is that as far as I know (correct me please), Devil is never mentioned in the Old Testament.”

        I was glad to help you. I have read the bible all the way through, due to Lutheran catechism for years….. but mention it very little. I never memorized it, but recall some at times.

        My bible is the Lamsa Version. It is translated directly from Peshitta Text and Aramaic into English. It is all marked up with notes…so… I use bible.cc for searches.


        One of many Lamsa differences…
        Matthew 19:24

        Some scholars of the Peshitta and the Greek New Testament claim that in Matthew 19:24 as the Aramaic word for ‘camel’ is written identically to the word for ‘rope.’(a homograph/heteronym) …… an error occurred due to the translator’s limitations when the original scrolls were being transferred into Greek.

        This would mean Matthew 19:24 commonly translated as, ‘It is easier for a CAMEL to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter into the Kingdom of God.’ Would read ‘rope’ instead of ‘camel’.

        To support this they claim that rope, is much more in keeping with the imagery of a needle, and that it is probably what Jesus said, and what was originally recorded[citation needed]. Saint Cyril in his commentary on the Holy Gospel according to Luke (Luke 18:25) says that camel is the term used by those versed in navigation for a thick rope, thereby both stating that the term camel is the right one and that its meaning is that of a rope and not the animal. This suggests the Lamsa ‘rope’ translation is the more accurate “meaning” translation and ‘camel’ is the more accurate 1st century “slang” translation.

        So…. as usual… I have to guess at which one to accept…. and I accept Lamsa’s version… because I WANT TO… and Lamsa is NOT a Pharisee-Jew. 🙂

      2. @ Pat

        I prefer “camel” to “rope”, even if “camel” is wrong. There is such a thing as an inspired mistranslation.

        The fact that subsequent translators of the Bible haven’t bothered to adopt Lamsa’s 1933 “correction”, shows that they would rather retain the more picturesque version of a camel passing through the eye of a needle than of a rope passing through it.

        In any case, your comment is totally off-topic as usual. But you don’t seem to mind that, even though Gombrich and Dr Parker have asked you repeatedly to try your best to stick to the point. This thread is about a genuinely serious subject: the age-old problem of good and evil. Instead of addressing this question honestly like most other people here, you prefer to prattle on about Lamsa’s Aramaic version of the Bible and the mistranslation of a particular word.

        We are talking about good and evil, in case you forgot, not about camels and ropes.

      3. @ Pat

        Thanks, Sard….. for the monitoring… 🙂

        I thought the subject was about a ‘red hat’ from the first comment.

        You are introducing a note of nastiness into this forum which I intend to tolerate no longer. My previous comment was a valid criticism of your tendency to go off the point roughly 90% of the time, as has been noted by many others here, including Dr Parker and Gombrich, both of whom you have tried to wind up and insult with ad hominem insults, as you have done to me.

        As you know, off-topic comments are not only tolerated but welcomed in moderation on this website. As this comment of mine below, which has the merit of being short as well as friendly and good-humored:

        April 1, 2016 at 9:56 pm
        @ TROJ

        Thanks for the video. Most refreshing. I agree Lobro has good taste in hats. Red suits him. 🙂

        I don’t think anyone here would maintain that I am derailing the discussion or changing it over to a detailed discussion of red hats. Only you would think that, since all you capable of is ponderous, long-winded off-topic comments such as the one above about the Aramaic Lamsa Bible and the confusion between the two words “camel” and “rope” in the New Testament quotation about a camel (or rope) passing through the eye of a needle.

        I sometimes wish I were one of the two monitors on this website, Dr DZ or Toby. If I were, I wouldn’t waste my time arguing the toss with you here and having to put up with your unremitting insolence. I would either delete your comments or ban you outright.

        As it is, I have no more power to ban you and thus put an end to your hateful insolence, any more than Lobro had the power to get rid of the equally vile Circassian. However, remember that Lobro managed to get Circassian thrown off this website by giving Admin an ultimatum: “IT’S EITHER ME OR CIRCASSIAN.”

        It worked.

        Faced with a choice between keeping either Lobro or Circassian, Admin chose Lobro.

        If you continue to wind me up and continue to flood this website with a constant stream of off-topic comments — long irrelevant lists — and tedious legalistic trivia — all laced with insults to me, Dr Parker and Gombrich — I will present Admin with a similar ultimatum: “IT’S EITHER ME OR PAT.”

        Don’t think your position here is as secure as Lobro’s.

        @ Admin

        I am not going to present you with an ultimatum just yet. I’d just like to know if such a course of action would be acceptable to you if I should be driven to desperation. I mean, would you rather I didn’t do this? And if I did, have you already made up your mind who you would choose?

      4. @ Sardonicus

        No ultimatums please. You need to cool it. Lasha says that Pat is not the problem.

      5. No, you are not. Rest assured on that score. We value your comments but would prefer it if you didn’t give us ultimatums.

      6. @Pat

        I don’t know Aramaic, but I know that the word for “camel” in Greek is kamèlos, while the Greek word for “cable” is kamilos. Now if you know that in modern Greek (and also in Koinè) the èta is pronounced as ‘i’, you can understand the confusion *).

        Keep also in mind that in that time bookprinting did not exist. Books were multiplied by groups of slaves who wrote while one of them dictated. The slave who dictated would have pronounced an ‘i’ anyway.

        *) For further info, see : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/iotacism

      7. FR –

        Thanks for the help.

        Typos and misspellings are still a bitch for the confused slaves. Grammar Fiend knows that. 🙂

        Cable – line – rope – wire – hawser – string – are all synonyms…. depending on context.

      8. The camel/rope debate makes more sense when put into the cultural context in which Jesus made the comment. He was addressing the illiterate fishermen comprising his discipleship. As the Sufis say, the teacher tailors his teaching for the time, place and people being addressed. This aligns with Jesus’ use of nautical terms to which the disciples would best relate.

        As a long time sailor I know from experience that nautical terminology has a strong influence on those who ply the oceans and waterways, more so than aviation. If one wants to establish communication rapport with a sailor, then use their terminology.

        When dropping the hook, know that it is far easier to make fast the cable’s bitter end than it is to pray for delivery from the reef ~ or ~ trust in Allah, but tie up your camel. Here is a question for the land lubbers: What’s the difference between “rope”, “line” and “rigging”?

  26. Esse est percipi.
    Or as the Buddhists might say, what we call ‘the world’ is thought-born.

    1. SW, some things may be fundamentally true but of little practical importance as a mass weapon in this fight.
      You might say that the current state of technology cannot make use of it.
      I can (and do) personally minimize exposure to Judaic forms but having sterilized my personal space, no overall ground is gained.

      1. On the contrary my dear Lobro. Pragmatism is not a sustainable means….
        And ‘technology’ is a dead end, leading only to Japanese sex robots and an escape into fantasies. Slavery. See Fritz Lang’s ‘Metropolis’.
        Real blood and flesh humanity, and the absolutely unique timeless souls that they possess, matter and spirit indivisible, are not well served by your ‘practical importance’.

  27. Pat still can’t figure out if he was a U.S. Navy Nuclear Submarine Commander during Vietnam, or if he was a draftee into the U.S. Army and served as a G.I. Joe grunt fighting on land in the jungles of Vietnam, so don’t expect TOO much from Pat, Sardonicus . You’re setting yourself up for disappointment if you expect too much from Pat. Always expect very little from Pat, that way you’ll see Pat never disappoints or lets down in any way, 🙂 .

  28. As an example of good and evil, here is a brief and crucial history of the United States… showing little good(decency) and much evil(predation):

    “Let Your Life Be a Friction to Stop the Machine”


    “None are so hopelessly enslaved, as those who falsely believe they are free. The truth has been kept from the depth of their minds by masters who rule them with lies. They feed them on falsehoods till wrong looks like right in their eyes.” Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

      1. hp

        A great example of where “East meets West”

        “The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, the leopard shall lie down with the young goat, the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them. The cow and the bear shall graze; their young ones shall lie down together; and the lion shall eat straw like the ox. The nursing child shall play by the cobra’s hole, and the weaned child shall put his hand in the viper’s den. They shall not hurt nor destroy, in all My holy mountain, for the Earth shall be full of the knowledge of the Lord as the waters cover the sea.”

        Isaiah 11: 6-9

  29. Thank you Lobro for causing me to focus my thoughts on these matters once again.
    Not so much that essence is perception, but that essence equals perception….matter and spirit in all ways are balanced and equal to one another, one not superior to the other, a harmonious union.
    You simply can’t have one without the other.
    And sex is a certain proof that one can engage in a most earthy activity while at the same time reaching ecstasy… in the full and original meaning of ek-stasis.
    There is no dichotomy.

    1. I don’t pursue these topics and certainly not publicly, unless I spot self-contradictions, something that over time goes from annoying to unbearable, such as otherwise well-meaning people venerating an all-powerful and benevolent Creator that runs a clearly unjust and cruel world, whose precise foreknowledge of future means that he micromanages every unit of matter and time and in the height of absurdity lays the blame on us, powerless to change an iota of that planned future.
      Some people have stomachs for that, I don’t, thus my postings on the subject, not for the sake of fashion show, though the red hat is a remarkable piece, well chosen for the head that wears it.

      As for the sex-stasis, I have this to say on it: you may actually be right about it but I would caution you to be careful what you wish for.
      Again, due to exclusive duality or dichotomy, a man cannot compare the strength of senses to a woman’s, nor vice versa, however, the prevalent belief is that woman experiences an orgasm more powerful than man’s and therefore, the common wisdom goes, a more enjoyable and desirable one, possibly more akin to religious rapture (who could ever encompass the subject better than Bernini – hey, did ALL of the fabled Jewish Century (20th) ever come within 1,000 miles of just this single work?)
      But, that worm of restless skepticism ever squirms in my brain.
      I once heard a woman assert before some yogi ascetic that nirvana is like an eternal orgasm, nothing could surpass it.
      In a sense, this may be true, because at the vinegar moment, the brain totally freezes up in the electrical overload, which may be happening to the Heavenly Host, so ecstatic that the judgmental capacity is short-circuited, just like burglars could enter your home at that moment, open the safe and make off with money, jewelry, dope, whatever you hold most precious and you wouldn’t care a whit.
      Maybe this is why Devil gets away with all the crimes of the Earth …
      Another woman told me that female pig’s orgasm last 30 minutes and how envious she was of that talent.
      Hmm, does that mean that pigs are closer to God? No blasphemy intended but I can’t help wondering.
      Lastly, how much fun can it be as the time drags on, before the hair burns to the roots, after 1 minute, 2, 5, half hour, 2 hours … at some point it becomes an unimaginable torture, worse than waterboarding, what about orgasmic eternity?

      Maybe eternity is where Heaven and Hell merge, no wonder Georg Cantor went mad.
      Sorry, don’t mind me.

      1. Oh Lobro,
        “Cruel and unjust”? What a buzzkill you are. I suggest you count your blessings. One of which is free will.
        Another is orgasm.
        Who is cruel and unjust? Who has eyes blinded and lusts for power if not us humans, created beings?
        A woman’s orgasm finer than a man’s? Who can say? Hermaphroditos ?
        Although if so that’s quite OK with me, preferable really, as I know a man’s is very nice and I wish only better for my partner if anything.
        And to return right to the point…. matter is inferior to spirit? Where is the dividing line?
        Orgasmic eternity? You are falling into the trap of thinking that time is linear.

      2. SW, always a pleasure to debate a refined woman, since this is what you come across as, irrelevant who is right and wrong, if I am wrong, a chance for me to improve, if you are, a chance for me to show off 🙂 , vanity in moderation is healthy.

        I use Cruel and Unjust not in subjective but objective sense, since by all measures, I managed to, so far, escape scot free, healthy, well traveled, wealthy in the sense that my needs are meagre, I don’t need wealth, which is a great wealth on its own.

        But, consider our biological existence, is there a single meal you ever had that wasn’t product of some organism giving up its life or limb … or leaf or root, just in order to keep you going until the next meal? Even milk, even mother’s milk requires fermentation and death of millions of microbes, a bacterial Holocaust that no Spielberg or earthly God has time to grieve for.

        So, while greatly enjoying life, I find it incumbent to remark that this joy is by no means free of charge and shared by all but in fact acutely depends on the agony of other lives.
        You’d be hard pressed to convince (an intelligent, English speaking) bacterium that while Jacob Rothschild is cruel and unjust, you aren’t.

        And i don’t blame you by any means, only observe that it is what it is, a genetic creed and try to explain it as a temporal sacrifice in order to educate the dumb, blissful heavenly Host out there, unable to rationalize on its own, because if left to its own devices, it freezes into a static perfection, the essence of orgasmic buzz.
        This is the nature of the beast of duality as I see it, suffer now, reap dividends in some Latter Day Rapture. Try as I might, I see no other way of seamlessly piecing the puzzle together, that doesn’t jump the shark.

        And after all, even for us to achieve that state sexual electrocution on this mortal coil involves a kind of pain, doesn’t it, even a simple joy of a meal or drink involves prior hunger and thirst, something the obsessively obese video masturbators of the New Age seem to have forgotten entirely in pursuit of instant mediocrity.

        Anyway, I hope that this particular nail is sufficiently hammered in to need no further force.

  30. “Satan” simply means opposition. “Diablo” or “devil” means “slanderer” or “accuser”. Both are descriptions of typical human traits. The “Satan” that tempts Jesus in the desert is a Temple priest who is oppositional to Jesus’ teachings. This is made plainly evident in the fact that this “Satan” takes Jesus to the top of the Temple in an attempt to persuade him into joining the opposition.

    The books after the Pentateuch are commentary elaborating on the legal and cultural concepts found of those first five books, as are the other books up to the Talmud. Therefore, the essential keys to Judaism, Christianity and Islam are found in those five books of Moses.

    It has been written that the human orgasm is a very pale, physical representation of the bliss brought on by enlightenment. This is what puts that little eternal smile on Buddha’s face. The desire and pursuit of sex is guaranteed to bring one back for another turn on the wheel of life, undoubtedly to suffer more of Judaism’s arrogant oppression. Perhaps this explains why Jews are so hooked on sex and porn, these feed the repetition of their materialistic hungers.

    When one arrives at a point where there is nothing left in this world that one desires, when there are no baubles, bling or ego driven pursuits driving one through this existence, then there is hope for the soul to move to a higher plane. Until that moment arrives, what is experienced in this existence is what one can expect for the foreseeable eternity.

  31. LOBRO,
    Recalling it’s efficacious when entering a labryrinth to trail a bit of string I returned to your essay to orient myself.
    You are sympathetic to the Cathars rejection of the material world. You say the god of the material world is a ‘bad’ god, and a Just and Good God cannot be found in this physical ‘kick a rock and you bruise your toe’ existence.
    Now you say we cannot live without suffering and death, ours and that of other organisms. As if that is a proof that God is not with us, not immanent. You posit a physical existence that is somehow divorced from the divine.
    This is cognitive dissonance. The poor Albigensians, like Mani all tied up in contradictions even Houdini could not unravel.
    Just as time is not composed of a series of moments, just as space cannot be quantified, so also are we part and parcel the sum total of all we sense and intuit. Blood and Spirit. To deny the one is to deny the other.
    We emerge from the womb covered with mucus and blood, but at the same time possessing a timeless soul. Which would you forfeit?
    Yes, there is suffering. Yes, there is ecstasy. They go together.
    I do not wish to pound any nails, but happy to aim a nerf ball at your highly spiritual head.

  32. S.W.,

    I am not suffering from cognitive dissonance for at least one reason and possibly two, if we split the difference, I have 1.5 reasons for “not suffering from cognitive dissonance“.
    Not trying to be pig-headed or argumentative for the sake of argument but please bear with me.
    Number one, I am not suffering. Even if there is a significant cognitive dissonance, it feels ok to me 🙂
    So, there goes one reason, let’s look at the other.

    Care must be taken with terms and their definitions.
    Perfection and completeness are completely different animals and both apart from morality.
    I think that you are primarily motivated by something that for a lack of better term I would call “joy” or “beauty” or esthetics, which may overlap with some of the above concepts and this may be the root cause of confusion.
    A platonic form, eg, a canonical circle in two dimensions comprised of immaterial points that require neither space nor mass, all equidistant from some equally platonic centre, is perfect.
    But is it “complete”? the question hardly applies, in fact, it is nonsensical because it draws in meta-geometrical issues, like asking, “is the circle good?”.

    Likewise, I posit a perfect spirit world, to say, God (let’s not argue, it is my choice of the term, if only temporary).
    Everything is in perfect balance and therefore JUST, no suffering, no deformities, no evil, ie, this spirit-dimension is a fit environment for a god that is not unjust or impotent, the necessary indignity that any god residing in our physical world must, ahem, suffer.
    Jews have solved it, as I said already, in jew demonology, YHWH is omnipotent and evil, which suits the Chosen just fine.

    So, what is the relationship between the material world with its resident evil that spews injustice with every breath and the pristine, balanced, calm world of spiritual perfection, why this seemingly weird duality?

    This: perfection is absolutely static, as soon as circle tries to morph into a bigger one or another shape, perfection is defaced. Thus, perfection cannot abide by dynamics nor intelligence, because intelligence is a highly dynamic state, ie, problem-solving.
    Our job as sentient beings is to accumulate ideas, insights and thought systems while kicking and import it into the static, perfect world of God, in order to by degrees push it toward completion and self-realization, like saying, “ok circle, just so you don’t get lonely, I bring you a buddy named square, see if it helps”.

    Now I understand that this is all totally speculative but it fits my requirements, viz, that things make sense.
    To extend the gedanken experiment, it is as if there is a gold panning process whereby little chunks of spirit (our mucus and snot covered souls trapped inside squirming, screaming, shitting baby body) are squirted into the physical world in hope that we’ll come back with a nugget or two in order to help complete the perfect but limited world of the Great Spirit.
    Some of us manage alright, some fail, some fail miserably and because their nature is gross and materialistic and perverse, they are flushed down into the nether regions of physical existence to soak up the suffering they caused previously, as in “ok Mr Carnivore, now you are a prime Angus bovine herbivore in Agroprocessors feedlot #666, have fun”, a rabbi will bless you..
    As for the rest of us me ( 🙂 ), efficient prospectors who hauled in lots of useful nuggets are encouraged to go back there into the muck and bring more … i dunno, it gets kind of vague here, not too important at this point.

    So you can see that I am just looking at it from a kind of administrative vantage point, like the Grand Chef, the Creator before splitting into disjoint spheres, static-perfect and dynamic-imperfect, now wondering how the ingredients will mix into the final meal, shake-n-bake.
    If you have a better model, by all means, out with it, but keep in mind that it must make basic sense that I continually harp on.

    1. lobro, et al

      I’m not sure if I’ve worded things like this before, but I’ll say this:

      The aging process, and death in general is the quintessential parasite. We all die, but it calls into question, what is the nature of the “we” to which this experience occurs?

      A common misconception has it that death is necessary, one such reason being that otherwise the planet couldn’t support all the life. But this thinking is of a frame of reference mired in physical exclusivity. Knowing the ways of Spirit understands that who “we” are in Truth has the capability of populating a boundless Universe – imperishably.

      A combo which can’t be beat in understanding what death really is are Jesus Christ and Mirra of Pondicherry, and I would urge all readers to pursue them both as it concerns the written word. Combined with experiencing the “stillness” (being yet; everlasting) of the natural world will offer as much clarity as can be mustered in this World at this time.

      1. b-hawk, i am totally useless at these pursuits, i get sidetracked into unexpected directions as easily as a bouncing pinball, which is why i am a candidate for the world’s worst disciple.

        Let me show you what i mean by way of this example.

        While i have certainly heard of Jesus Christ, I got curious about this Mirra and searched for “Mirra of Pondicherry” and about half dozen entries from the top, i spot this one, so what’s a lobro to do but dive right in at the headline of
        India’s (Jewish) Mother
        like giving the bull a red carpet treatment in a china shop … or whatever.
        The online mag is called Tablet, clear reference how the first-Chosen came down off Mt Zion with a rewritten Script on a tablet shoplifted from older, cleaner and better societies, to proclaim to the universe that Jew-is-G-d and all you goyums better get used to serving him without question.
        As Micehlle Goldberg, the author of the article clearly says, that includes 1.2 billion (eastern) injuns as well.
        Let’s see where that takes us.

        It looks, in other words, like thousands of other temples throughout India, until you examine the pictures more closely. They’re of an old woman with hooded eyes and a cryptic closed-mouth smile who looks a bit like Hannah Arendt. Everyone refers to her as “The Mother,” but she was born Mirra Alfassa. The de facto goddess of this town is a Sephardic Jew from France.

        Hooded eyes and cryptic mouth … it sounds promising, follow the matzo crumb trail …

        She reached adulthood in the midst of the Dreyfus affair, so while she was secular, her Judaism must have marked her. Perhaps it influenced her quest for a universal spirituality that could unite all of humanity. [NOAHIDE!!! I get it]

        For a while, Mirra was a follower of a mysterious figure named Max Théon (né Bimstein), a Polish Jew who had founded an organization called the Hermetic Brotherhood of Luxor in Algeria, whose precepts may have been based on Kabbalah.

        There you have it, B-Hawk, apart from the heavy Judaic angle, i got no time for followers who become leaders, i don’t see myself as either and would heartily recommend everyone not to follow me, quite a futile pursuit, plus the idea gives me willies.
        Following is like smoking, you end up with spiritual cancer, mobility lost.

        Jesus said very few things but each makes tons of sense and is basics to riff on on your own, yes he had a bunch of followers, disciples, apostles, gospelitarians, none of whom got anything to say to me apart from quoting Jesus and even then, I kind of squint at their quotes and wonder if they got it right.

        In my life I met couple of spooky shamans and tibetan sages, a totally off-the-wall Untouchable nutcase in Gwalior whose eyes told me right away that he was Special, but at no time did i feel an urge to skim off their wisdom, like saying you conquered Mt Everest because you saw it from the plane.

        And wisdom in Kabbalah is like virginity in a whorehouse.

        More interesting is Michelle Goldberg of Tablet, “a critically acclaimed Jewess” by NYT and the usual culture of critique which loves to dispense it and accepts none in return.
        She wrote The Means of Reproduction: Sex, Power, and the Future of the World, where we are on the tragically familiar feminist ground.

        *** the New York Times bestseller *** [ta-dah!!!]
        Kingdom Coming, Michelle Goldberg exposes the global war on women’s reproductive rights and its disastrous and unreported consequences for the future of global development

        Jew-on-Jew praise, how quaint, this is the kind of stuff that brings out my magnifying glass, the one I use to burn insects with.

        Cover picture, a naked Jewess holding up the World, like Portnoy’s Complaint or Atlas Shrugged, Pamela geller, reminiscent of the army of naked, perpetually anguished between shopping trips to the Fifth Avenue and Rodeo Drive jewesses, you just know that this has all the earmarks of being another NYT bestseller.
        That picture is of the Hardcover Version, now yours for only $1.50, grab it while supplies last, wow, a hardcover! use it as a cutting board or frisbee for your mutt, he also wants to know about the Sex, Power, and the Future of the World, dogs are totally into Sex, Power, and the Future of the World, especially if it is a groundbreaking work of investigative journalism.

        See b-hawk why i am useless as a follower, i will chase someone else’s Frisbee if given half a chance 🙂

        As to what death is all about, the only true experts on the subject are dead, the stiffs underground and they are notoriously good at keeping secrets.
        You, me and all the living have no clue, only guesses, just ask Pat.

      2. forgot to add, that this $1.50 hardcover treasure of groundbreaking work is praised to high heaven by every single reviewer, 5 stars greasing the way to landfill, baby.

        a movie sure to follow, first shown at indies like sundance and tribeca, finally the oscars, julia roberts, winona ryder, amy zellweger, raquel welch rachel weisz, nakedly anguished parade, revolutionary heirs of suffragettes, their bodies martyred by brutal goyums, i’ll let you know when it’s available in-flight.

      3. I getcha my friend

        My references to Mirra and Christ are seen by me as being in the same vein with the legends of White Buffalo Woman and stories of the Great Spirit related from oral tradition of the Kiowa Apache. As you can imagine, expressing much of what I post is very challenging because most of it’s content is interpreted by me in accessing this non-written information.

        Your account of Mirra of Pondicherry makes me realize how credible info pertaining to her can be so waylayed by those who do so deliberately, or others who are hopelessly mired in their own desolate swamp of misguidedness. So I suppose it would be better to just stick to referencing various Gospel passages insofar as the written word is concerned.

        And the best unsolicited advice I can impart you could say emulates Christ in the wilderness. Not to the extent of a 40-day fast mind you! But only to lesser degrees, where you empty everything from the head and the gastro regions before filling them again

        In my experience, there’s no better way to gain certain insights

      4. yes, bro b-hawk.

        Alone we are breached from the womb, alone we leave the world and alone we are responsible for our thoughts and actions.

        Every other way is a cop-out.

        Thinking your own, clean thoughts, unpolluted by outside influences is like eating simple food grown on your little plot of land, GMO and Roundup free.

      5. Against Lobro,

        Whether Lobro’s unassailable presence in this Jewish Christian Palace of Love can indeed be regarded otherwise than as a great blessing; whether, as a means of obtaining some future intellectual felicity from his Christian mouth, our attention to him may yet be counted as precious time lost; or, lastly, whether what he here says is the result of some strange and hitherto unidentified chemical imbalance in his brain, such as happens to those unfortunate members of our species who take Semitic hocus-pocus mind-numbing magic for truth, is something which I am yet fully to determine, though that he has wonderfully succeeded in luring me out from my retirement in order that I may impress the childish Christian human credulities that are gathered here, is something that cannot be doubted.

        If Memory does not deceive me, the good and loving mother of his once touchingly described her gorgeous corporeal production as a, ‘’Mimosa Flower,’’ that wonderfully strange and strangely wonderful creation of Nature, whose spirit, vivacity and very life is rendered dead the moment a human hand touches it. Oh, don’t worry, you Ellka-murdering Christians: I AM NOT ABOUT TO SO MUCH AS TOUCH YOUR LOBROOO! Instead, I am here returned simply in order that I may complete what Lobro was intellectually and spiritually unwilling and incapable of completing, even if I KNOW well beforehand that the delicacies and elegances with which I intend to sprinkle my words shall earn me nothing but that hideous perpetual obscurity and hate which you, the Christian cosmic lovers of all things human and divine, are so very well known around the world for possessing. But, let us now jump right in and dissect a little bit of Lobro, and render ourselves slightly the more hated than we already have!

        Problem Number One: Lobro says: ‘’…The Cathars, Bogomils and Paulicians were destroyed. Burnt to death…’’

        Evil Ellie says back: That the Christian portion of mankind prefers to tell history By Way of Omission, which half-clever literary trick cannot but translate to, By Way of Deception, is very perfectly clear with this, our mathematical human genus, for whom excitement, any excitement, may well spell his end; for, Lobro very deftly tells his audience – all of whom, incidentally, were formerly and jealously mine but since cruelly stolen from me – that the Cathars were indeed killed, but does not tell them precisely by whom! Enter the evil me. The total pig-shit murderer of them was none other than the loving Christian Abbot of Citeaux, whose memorable reply, upon being asked by his fellow loving Christian killer, how to tell the difference between Catholics and Cathars, replied: ‘’How?! Kill them all! God will recognize his own.’’ In yet another of his inelegant academic absurdities, which here easily pass for learned critiques, and which, sadly, our gorgeous human Mimosa undertakes and successfully performs, is his feeling ejaculation, beautified by me, in which he says, ‘’But, oh, don’t get me wrong, yes?; I cannot quite see what made them so evil; all they did was to reject this evil material world. Surely, death is too high a price to pay for such an opinion?!’’

        Nowhere in Lobro do we see tears! Nowhere a bloody gnashing of teeth! And never does he lead a powerful, feeling, cosmically-sharp mind like mine in that emotional direction out of which it would struggle to return. And just when we feel that his descriptive, analytic strength of evil and human characters in general has just about out-topped and buried mine, we actually see that he has done nothing but visibly underperformed, which performance, incidentally, if you are a Christian and belong to this Christian Palace of Love, cannot possibly be followed by perpetual obscurity and admonition, like mine, but rather by eternal Love and approbation. If to-morrow Lobro were to inscribe his thoughts with fecal refuse, still he would be loved, but me: NEVER!

        Where is gore, Lobrushka? Where the details, smells and the ripped loins of the pack-fucked inoffensive virgins? And where that famed Christian honesty of yours, which ought to tell his readers at the very least THE NUMBER OF DEATHS, whose remembrance by those like me mocks and spits at every loving letter and syllable and sentence of that Jewish-inspired Testament of yours which promised love and hope but brought mankind nothing but murder and waste? Nowhere, mine touchy Mimosa, nowhere, that’s where. Perhaps we should turn one of your loved ones into soup, and growl out a cosmic growl of cosmic Christian happiness at his suffering, and THEN invite you back here so that you may render us an account of his suffering, eh?!

        Problem Number Two: He tells us how his interest in the Cathars’ fate waxes and wanes, presumably like the moon, to whose human terrestrial representation here on earth he is perpetually attached, and is only ever brought to his attention when someone accidentally mentions them, you know, in the way one’s slumbering appetite is instantaneously awakened when someone mentions a soufflé au cantal, or confit de canard, for example. Tsk, tsk, tsk! Why? Why should we persuade ourselves that the memory of tens of thousands of murders is less worthy of remembrance than the imagined death of one simple Galilean, who yester-day was from Nazareth, to-day is from Bethlehem, and to-morrow no doubt will be from China? Is it because we have long been trained to think as unworthy of remembering any and all lost lives which the Jewish Christian Church would rather forget, and whose followers, by the way, owing to their blind intellectual and spiritual imbecility, are never too keen to remember their own alleged Christian deaths and martyrdoms? Sensibility, mine beautiful Lobro, grows the tenderer the more consistently and universally it is applied (save towards the Jews, of course); and, if you think that your feeling and remembering of human pain must needs be subject to prior ecclesiastic approval and dogmatic considerations, know that, strictly speaking, you are wrong, and thus willingly partake of that wretched general condition of Christian portion of humanity which would rather forget and not remember those crimes to which, if their own members and slaves were ever subjected to, are always recollected with the gentlest and most minute reverence and pain.

        But, lest I am misunderstood, my most cosmically powerful wrath is not reserved for Lobro – oh, no! – Lobro I have always only admired. My piping white-hot fury is specially and especially reserved for her whom I once loved, for really, what is hatred if not but Love turned upside down?! This former gorgeous beauty of mine calls my Cathars, ‘’heretics,’’ you know, a type of people whose vulgar coarseness and unbelief in Jewish miracles instantaneously renders them inhuman – in Christian eyes!

        What can I say about her that I haven’t already said?! I am very strongly of the opinion that it is not only her Jewish Christianity that has rendered her so… unlovable towards me, but her Christian-enforced virginity, which repels all delicious and delicate advances, which utterly stupidly causes her to reject very, very good money, and whose other mental and spiritual consequences lead the sufferer of it to excrescences and defects so very permanent and great, as to wonder indeed what other visions and phantoms of inner turpitude and death are lurking within her English mind, formerly so delicate, so feminine, so thoughtful and soft.

        Long-untouched Christian virgins like her, it will generally be found, grow into morose spinsters: fretful, uncertain, lonely and cold; and, if soon they do not offend against their mental and spiritual prison that is the evil Church and do not throw themselves into a long and carnal enjoyment of life, they end up resembling one of those famed armchair historians of the nineteenth-century, who composed a famous History of Peru simply by reading an hundred other Histories of Peru written by other historians of that land, but who, upon being asked by one of his more astute readers what those flowers which he had so wonderfully described in the book actually smelled like, replied, ‘’I haven’t a clue; I have never been to Peru!’’ Such will the effect of her religion-imposed virginity be on our dear unlived Lasha, who, upon being asked by her enquirer some day what life is all about, shall answer: ‘’I don’t know; I haven’t lived; all I have done was to believe,’’ – yes, Lasha, the only person in the history of money who chose rather to submit her very being to the dogmatic precepts of a man-made fable, than to sensuous, unending Love and to even more beautiful money, both of which I offered, but both of which were violently and openly spurned.

        They say that poverty can be so crushing as to deprive the sufferer of it from being able ever again to distinguish from total want and absolute abundance. But I wouldn’t know, for some misfortunes in life befall only those who others’ falsities and lies injudiciously embrace.

        Evil Ellie

      6. Again Lobro 🙂
        Ellie, your posts are like a trampoline, I must jump onto them, read them and bounce many times before reaching the requisite Elliesian altitude.
        Were I a bit younger, a bit braver and a bit less of a Mimosa, i would also add that I would like to bounce off you as well, until that image of virginal loins and smells was refreshed – but I am not saying that, am I? Of course not, tsk, tsk, what an imagination you all got.
        Especially you Elka … as I said, I will read, reread, rereread your post as many times as it takes to get past the sights, sounds and smells, which presently bar entry as powerfully as they invite it.
        Damn you, but you are wicked, like Lasha says.
        And just like Lasha, I like you, always did and you must try a lot harder before you can offend me.
        Because I know that you have a kind soul, your wickedness just a reflection of that devilish torment that won’t let go, legacy of your devilish father, how does it go,

        (…) the lusts of your father ye will do

        Except ye will not DO, ye will only IMAGINE, therefore, you are on the road away from perdition.

        Try not to think of smelly virgins because we are debating bloodless concepts here and now.
        Also, giving in to such imagery, however much it hounds you, is not good, because just as those loins will with time acquire a patina of cellulite, an even thicker slab of cellulite will encase your mind in a vicelike grip, like Arctic pack ice blocks the shipping so the neuron stream will freeze before reaching the synapse next door.

        As for the fat, venal priests and vicars of Rome ravening Cathar virgins and me not shedding a tear, couple of reasons or more for that.
        As you know (I know that you know), I am of the old school when a boy was urged to stop crying as soon as free of diapers and for the same reason, hence it’s been a long, long while.
        Cathars and the rest of the Good Christian crowd were butchered a long time ago, no tears, even on Talmudic scale where the Egyptian pharaoh, and all the pharaoh’s horses and all the pharaoh’s men good drowned and couldn’t put Humpty Dumpty the Cathar together again.

        Hugs, Ellie, don’t feel so bad about not getting your due, I am saving all those undeserved accolades in a velvet lined box, so that when we meet, besides the hug you will get a boxful of accolades and chocolates, the Chevaliers de Templars or whichever ones you prefer.

        Now if I may read the post, the first of many tries at ascent, with helmet, goggles, crampons and ice-pick to scale the forbidding Mt Ellie where no mimosas grow.

  33. lobro

    While knowing that much of what I relate suggests an obliqueness in some of the mathematics, I’ll still be pounding this theme until the cows come home (my ancestors make me do it)

    A consideration of “evil” takes it beyond the committing of wicked acts that only PARTIALLY defines it.

    I’ll offer a furtherance of the definition:

    1) A STATE of Existence which is absent a full connection to Divinity

    2) A state of disorientation called “matter”; whereby the reciprocity of an interdependent relationship (God and Man) is rendered insufficient, resulting in a parasitic condition

    3) A state wherein occurs an inexorable movement of erosive actions infiltrating the general body of Mankind

    4) A state resulting in an annihilation of “all things passing”; indicating a disingenuous pose of Time called a “passage”.

    5) A state whose setting subordinates its inhabitants to a “death culture”

  34. Again St Ellie,

    You are a weird one Ellie and that is good because you got me thinking along some fresh tracks, sort of like heliskiing in virgin powder. Cold pressed extra virgin powder.

    Because you are that rarest of heraldic beasts, you know the ones with chunks of different animals grafted incongruously onto each other, winged bull with rattlesnake tail and chicken feet or something. And somehow the whole seems to function and function surprisingly well.
    Because, you are an atheist propelled along on power of love, which was forever thought to be the sole province of faith, how is that possible, I ended up asking.
    No matter your frequent forays into the scary alcoves dripping with fresh meat and cruelty, all that actually shows up on closer inspection is – love, a trick peculiar to you and one beyond my understanding, as versed as I am in spotting the old jew 3 card monty, you got me beat.
    But because atheism is something I discarded long ago as a 5 legged racehorse, tripping on itself, ie, totally useless and inconsistent, I no longer have any interest at following its theoretical dodges.

    So, to reverse gears, the question becomes, is love an essential ingredient in “intelligent design”, as I see it?
    Love as being God’s own DNA has acquired that immutable, unquestionable quality found in the most dominating of dogmas, shall we say, political correctness.
    But for me, the underlying assumption, an axiom sine qua non is the concept of logical integrity, that there be no internal contradictions and inconsistencies that amount to self-denial, as in the statement “I am a liar”, because this is the magic of Kol Nidre, namely it becomes the most undeniable of truths.
    And we don’t want that, do we.

    We want truth. We want justice – for all.

    And the truth can, at least in theory be incompatible with love … “love is blind”, “a face only mother could love”, etc, etc.
    Truth cannot be inconsistent or self-contradictory, that would deny its very definition and it would immediately cease to be the truth and become everything that is not true, ie, a lie.

    So, I see that chunks of love can fall off from the domain of truth, to be eagerly scooped up and consumed by scavenging Ellie-the-atheist, atheist only because she has not yet arrived at that truth, as unassailable as it is inescapable, of “yup, there is Designer responsible for The Design of which I am an eternal, indestructible part”.
    But that’s fine, Ellie will get there, no point of ignoring obstacles, taking cheating shortcuts, pretending that there are no obstacles in reaching the stage of completion, deus ex machina is a fake deus, a tragic waste of time so typical of our New Age of New World Order.

    Go Ellie, go, I am cheering for you, that love which you harbor will make every bitter pill go down a bit easier (I told you that I remember how in your very first post, you cut it short by announcing that you must open the back door to let in the cat to be fed – what is this if not love (and I don’t even like cats all that much)).

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