North Korea — Hurtling Toward ‘Fire and Fury’

By Jonathan Marshall
August 11, 2017 “Information Clearing House”

Under congressional and media pressure to confront U.S. “adversaries,” President Trump alarmed the world with rash rhetoric about inflicting “fire and fury” on North Korea, a frightening prospect, says Jonathan Marshall.

“Be prepared, there is a small chance that our horrendous leadership could unknowingly lead us into World War III.” – Donald Trump, August 31, 2013

Like some demonic Hollywood director, President Trump keeps finding new ways to make us jump out of our seats, just when we think we’ve seen everything. On Tuesday, he outdid himself by twice pledging to meet any further North Korean threats to the United States “with fire and fury like the world has never seen.”

His headline-grabbing comments were sufficiently incendiary that White House staffers rushed to reassure reporters (and the public) that the President was just improvising, not speaking from an approved script. Secretary of State Rex Tillerson insisted that the President simply meant to say that “the United States has the capability to fully defend itself from any attack . . . So the American people should sleep well at night.”

People at home and around the world were rattled but not too alarmed, judging by the modest drop in stock prices on U.S. and foreign exchanges. North Korea responded to Trump’s threat with a threat of its own to vaporize Guam, yet no war broke out. So far, leaders of both countries, like taunting schoolboys, seem content to lob only harsh rhetoric across the ocean, not fully armed missiles.

It’s easy to discount Trump’s bluster, based on his long history of practicing the art of “bullshit.” Maybe he’s just trying to make Chinese leaders nervous about his intentions, so they try a little harder to rein in Pyongyang. Surely he understands by now just how devastating a war with North Korea would be, right?

I’m not so sure. What increasingly keep me up at night are the uncontradicted claims of one of the GOP’s leading foreign policy spokesmen, Sen. Lindsey Graham of South Carolina, that Trump is ready and willing to launch a preemptive war “if [North Korea tries] to keep developing an ICBM with a nuclear weapon on top to hit the [U.S.] homeland.”

North Korea isn’t quite there yet, but some U.S. intelligence officials claim that Pyongyang has already produced a miniature nuclear warhead suitable for delivery by missile, and its accelerated testing of long-range ballistic missiles means that the time is quickly drawing near when Kim Jong Un’s regime will be able to put the United States at risk.

Tough-Guy Senators

Early in Trump’s presidency, the influential Republican senator went to the President with a powerful message. Graham asked Trump, “Do you want on your resumé that during your presidency the North Koreans developed a missile that could hit the American homeland with a nuclear weapon on top of it?” Trump replied, according to Graham, “Absolutely not.”

Graham advised President Trump that if all else failed, he must order a military strike. As Graham put it, “It would be terrible but the war would be over here (there), wouldn’t be here. It would be bad for the Korean Peninsula. It would be bad for China. It would be bad for Japan, be bad for South Korea. It would be the end of North Korea. But what it would not do is hit America and the only way it could ever come to America is with a missile.”

Speaking to NBC’s “Today” show this month, Graham reiterated that Trump isn’t bluffing about preparing an all-out strike against North Korea’s nuclear program. “He has told me that. I believe him,” Graham said. “If there’s going to be a war to stop [Kim Jong Un], it will be over there. If thousands die, they’re going to die over there. They’re not going to die here. And he has told me that to my face.”

Senate Armed Services Committee Chair John McCain, R-Arizona, was with Graham for the private meeting with Trump in April, and did not dispute his colleague’s description of the conversation. He added only that a preemptive strike would be a “last” option.

Trump has said nothing to call Graham’s account into question, either. Indeed, one of his first tweets of 2017 was a flat-out declaration, “North Korea just stated that it is in the final stages of developing a nuclear weapon capable of reaching parts of the U.S. It won’t happen!” Trump’s national security adviser, H. R. McMaster, confirmed just this month that allowing North Korea to acquire functional nuclear-tipped ICBMs would be “intolerable, from the President’s perspective.”

The Trump-Graham doctrine recalls the George W. Bush administration’s justification for preemptive war against Iraq in 2003 — with the key difference that North Korea’s weapons of mass destruction are real, not mythical. Contrary to all evidence, Trump appears to believe that America’s immense nuclear arsenal will be insufficient to deter North Korea from attacking the United States or its allies.

North Korean Fears

North Korean leaders have consistently maintained that they want and need nuclear weapons only to deter a U.S. attack, not to start a war against the world’s only superpower. Most experts on Korea agree. Former Secretary of Defense William Perry, who actually negotiated with Kim’s predecessor in 2000, asserts that while the risks of inadvertent war are growing, North Korea has no intention of launching a surprise nuclear attack:

“I have studied North Korea for several decades and have had serious talks with many of their military and political leaders. . . . They are not crazy, as some people believe. North Korea is a pariah state and nearly alone in the world, but there is logic to the actions of its leadership. Fundamental to that logic is an overriding commitment to keeping their regime in power, to sustain the Kim dynasty. . . . and they understand that if they launch a nuclear attack, their country will be destroyed, and . . . it would end the Kim dynasty.”

Experts also reject the Graham/Trump assumption that preemptive war with North Korea would be merely “bad” but manageable. Pyongyang has thousands of artillery aimed at Seoul, hundreds of rocket launchers, vast stocks of deadly chemical weapons, and as many as 60 nuclear warheads, which could render much of South Korea and Japan uninhabitable and rock the world’s economy.

Defense Secretary James Mattis’s gloomy warning that any conflict with North Korea would be “probably the worst kind of fighting in most people’s lifetime,” was almost certainly an understatement. As I have discussed previously, even without functioning ICBMs, Kim’s regime already has the ability to wipe out major U.S. coastal cities simply by floating nuclear bombs into our harbors, hidden in container vessels.

President Trump’s views on preemptive war are rejected not only by the experts, but by the majority of Americans. Fewer than a third of U.S. adults believe the situation in North Korea requires a military response, according to a new CBS poll, and 61 percent are rightfully uneasy about Trump’s ability to handle the situation.

But what experts and most Americans think doesn’t really matter. The U.S. military is undoubtedly ready to carry out an order from its commander-in-chief to attack North Korea. It holds massive training exercises every year for just such an eventuality. And the commander of the U.S. Pacific Fleet, Admiral Scott Swift, answered unequivocally “yes” when asked whether he would follow an order by President Trump to launch a nuclear attack against China, a vastly more dangerous foe than North Korea.

So how, under these circumstances, do I get any sleep at all? Deep down, I suspect that Trump is too gutless to start an unnecessary war that will kill millions of people. I also have faith that South Korean President Moon Jae-in, a former human rights lawyer, will refuse to cooperate with a preemptive attack, making it difficult for U.S. forces to go it alone. I hope and pray that I’m right.

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80 thoughts on “North Korea — Hurtling Toward ‘Fire and Fury’

  1. First to comment?!?

    The Yankee mad dog (or Jewish poodle) and Donald Duck, haven’t they had enough nations to invade and level and send back to the stone ages like Libya, Syria, Eastern Ukraine, Yugoslavia, Iraq, Afghanistan, etc., and of course bring them “freedom and democracy”?

    The table is set for a Gulf of Tonkin 2.0: https://www.rt.com/news/399310-china-prevent-us-strike-nkorea/

    Now, Venezuela is being targeted for “regime” change: https://www.rt.com/usa/399368-trump-maduro-venezuela-military-option/

    Armegeddon here we come!

    1. David Chu,
      You’ll be okay in Patagonia. It’s as far south as one can go and still enjoy a reasonable climate. I’ve heard it can get a bit windy.

  2. “I hope and pray that I’m right”
    So do I. China has stated in their official press that if North Korea attacks first, they’ll remain neutral. However if the US attacks first they’ll honour their defence agreement with North Korea. That will most probably draw in Russia. Life is getting interesting!
    If I were the US I wouldn’t be too sanguine about technical superiority. There are indications that China has developed quantum radar, which negates US stealth capability.
    Remember WW2, the US believed Pearl Harbor, with a depth of 75 feet was too shallow for a torpedo attack. The torpedoes would sink to about 150 feet when dropped from a plane. However the Japanese used wooden fins and of course the rest is history. Then there was the Zero, which ruled the skies at the opening of the Pacific War.
    The same for the Brits, their two Battleships, Prince of Wales and Repulse, sunk in 45 minutes. All because they underestimated the Japanese. Who says Asians can’t innovate?

    1. That was a smart move by China to make that public announcement, IMO. It seems it would have the effect of restraining North Korea, and clearly communicating to Chumpster and his jew handlers that China understands the game and will play if it is forced upon them.

      I wish Russia would stop being coy and make some kind of a similar commitment. If there is any chance of getting through to the psychopaths before they take another irrevocable step, it is only the threat of an overwhelming opposing force that may get their attention, IMO.

      1. I think something huge will happen soon as this could be a distraction,remember Chandra Levy/Conduit before 9/11?God help us all .

      2. @Harold Smith

        I wish Russia would stop being coy and make some kind of a similar commitment.

        There is no need for Russia to engage in this stupid exchange of empty threats.

        The Empire is running out of time. In chess it is called zeitnot. When in zeitnot, the player is bound to make mistakes that put him in a situation called zugzwang – a situation in which the obligation to make a move in one’s turn is a serious, often decisive, disadvantage.

        Making threats that one cannot fulfil is not a good move for the Empire, especially when going ahead and fulfilling it anyway is even worse than biting the dust and backing off. “The Orange Clown“ is making mistakes, one after another, that put him in a zugzwang again and again.

        P.S. I suggest enriching the English language with a new verb: putin – to PUT a political opponent IN a zugzwang. With this little enhancement of the rich English, I could just say: Putin putined Trump.

        Until my new verb gets wide circulation, I have to settle with a trite expression: Putin is trumping Trump at every corner.

      3. @Circassian

        We will accept your proposed new verb to putin if you will accept our proposed new verb to circass and if you promise to stop circassing this website.

      4. @FR

        Frank, I am sorry to disappoint you but to circass is not a new verb – you simply misspelled it; the correct spelling is: to kick ass.

        So, I am forced to decline your generous offer. Besides, I strongly protest against associating such a bad verb with my name.

  3. “Like some demonic Hollywood director, President Trump keeps finding new ways to make us jump out of our seats..”

    Of course…. that’s how he and China and Russia and others… can justify MASSIVE military spending..!!

    Can we ALL get over it… after 70+ years of TOTAL bullshit..??

    The ‘Baby Huey’ of N Korea is being paid to use the same scare tactics which ‘shoe-slapper’ Khrushchev was paid to use in the 50s and 60s.

    Reports of mobile NUKE weapons are FAKE NEWS..!!

    No need to hope and pray. Just TELL CHINA to stop giving food and arming ‘Baby Huey’ in N Korea,,!!

    The “YUGE” news this last week was that ‘Baby Huey’ found a way to miniaturize NUKES for use in missile warheads..!!!

    GET SCARED..!! 🙂

    1. The thing is – if Baby Huey DID launch a missile, our satellite surveillance would immediately notify us, and Baby Huey needs to know that “righteous retribution” should/would immediately follow, Devil take the hindmost.
      I believe Trump is acting properly by voicing his sabre-rattling because that type of “diplomacy” could cause a war to be avoided. No matter how many soldiers China (or Russia) could mobilize against America, they know the results could be catastrophic for all of us. They don’t want it – and we don’t want it. (Let them rattle their sabres!)

      1. @ Gilbert

        “I believe Trump is acting properly by voicing his sabre-rattling because that type of “diplomacy” could cause a war to be avoided.”

        Trump is merely another jew puppet following his masters’ orders (and apparently enjoying his role immensely). The “sabre-rattling” is of course a scam, now, just like it’s always been. Everyone knows NK nukes will never be used offensively. In our masters’ eyes North Korea is nothing more than a fig leaf covering its machinations against a rising China.

        “No matter how many soldiers China (or Russia) could mobilize against America, they know the results could be catastrophic for all of us. They don’t want it – and we don’t want it. (Let them rattle their sabres!)”

        It’s not a matter of China and Russia “not wanting it”; it’s a matter of them being backed into a corner and having no choice but to defend themselves and their legitimate interests. BTW who’s “we”? In matters involving U.S. government geopolitical treachery, I generally don’t include “us” in with “them”.

      2. Harold –

        That is all well and true, but where my own ass is concerned, I reside in America. The “we” is from my speaking as an American. Don’t try to obfuscate the issue. You know damn well what I mean!
        America is MY dog in the fight, like it or not.

      3. @ Gilbert

        No I don’t “damn well know what [you] mean”, because things being the way they are, the definition of what it means to be an “American” is open to interpretation. For example, if Trump
        and his handlers and enablers are “Americans” then I’m not. Being that I put God before corrupt human “authority”, I’m a person without a country who just happens to be presently stuck here in this post-constitutional Jew-controlled wasteland.

        And if I’m killed in a nuclear war before I can get out of here, I wouldn’t blame the country that launched the nukes, I would blame the aggressor which brought about the nuclear attack, which would be “America”.

        “America is MY dog in the fight, like it or not.”

        So if you were 20 years old and you were drafted into the U.S. military and ordered to go invade Syria, Iran, Iraq, North Korea, Venezuela, or some other victim country, in an illegal, immoral war of aggression, you’d go? You’d go because you’re a “patriotic” “American” who follows orders?

      1. H.S.,
        True. America stopped being “America” long ago. We have no more Mark Twains here. The U.S. military for over 100 years has been nothing more, nothing less than the muscle of the Khazar mafia…..God damn them.

    2. North Korea has successfully produced a miniaturized nuclear warhead that can fit inside its missiles, crossing a key threshold on the path to becoming a full-fledged nuclear power, U.S. intelligence officials have concluded in a confidential(NOT VERY) assessment.

      https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/north-korea-now-making-missile-ready-nuclear-weapons-us-analysts-say/2017/08/08/e14b882a-7b6b-11e7-9d08-b79f191668ed_story.html?utm_term=.0ac708be598e

      The analysis, completed last month by the Defense Intelligence Agency, comes on the heels of another intelligence assessment that sharply raises the official estimate for the total number of bombs in the communist country’s atomic arsenal. The United States calculated last month that up to 60 nuclear weapons are now controlled by North Korean leader Kim Jong Un. Some independent experts think the number is much smaller.

      ……………………

      “Some independent experts think the number is much smaller.”

      Uhhh… Would that be “ZERO”….
      …….by those NOT PAID to claim otherwise.????

      That lets Wash Post off the hook… An ‘out’ for them… 🙂

      1. Wig –

        This one ‘could’ have been weaponized in 1944… and WAS.

        But, it only killed 2 guys:

        In 1944, Joseph Kennedy Jr. (older brother of JFK) took off from a British airfield in a B-24 Liberator filled with 20,000 pounds of explosives. He’d volunteered for the mission. It would be his last.

        Kennedy was the eldest of nine siblings, and it was assumed he’d eventually take up the family business. However, in 1942 he dropped out of law school to join the U.S. Navy, hoping to become a pilot. In 1943 and 1944 he flew numerous missions in a PB4Y-1 Liberator (the Navy’s designation for the B-24 Liberator), completing two tours of duty. Eligible for stateside duty at that point, he instead volunteered for a secret and incredibly dangerous mission:
        operating some of the first military drone aircraft.

        Drones had been used in World War I, but they were essentially precursors to cruise missiles. They were sent on their way with a target in mind, but there was little or no remote control exerted once the flight began.
        http://io9.gizmodo.com/5985733/the-secret-drone-mission-that-killed-joseph-kennedy-jr

  4. The only difference between Trump and Hillary is their plumbing and not sure who has got what in that regards. George Orwells 1984 pretty well sums up what the U.S. has become under Zionist control ie a warmongering predator nation devouring weaker countries aka Roman Empire style in its quest for a Zionist controlled NWO.

    Just like the Romans we have become a degraded nation under Zionist neocon control , a country with out morals and a nation of perpetual war for perpetual profits for the banksters and the MIC.

  5. The first step in the analysis of the North Korean “situation”, IMO, is to recall that both Obama and Trump have apparently tried (and luckily failed so far) to provoke a military conflict with Russia – nuclear armed Russia, that is. And simple reasoning tells me that if the U.S. “government” isn’t intimidated by Russia’s vast, state-of-the-art nuclear arsenal, then it surely isn’t worried about North Korea’s relatively tiny arsenal.

    Thus the North Korean “threat” is merely a pretext. But what is the ulterior motive here? I’m going to guess that China is real target. With the empire’s provocations in the South China sea having failed to start a conflict with China, the Jews are perhaps trying a different approach; they’re going with the time-tested back door approach to starting a war; e.g., Germany won’t take the bait, maybe the Japanese will; China won’t take the bait, maybe North Korea will.

    Could our filthy subhuman judeo-communist “elite” be trying to prevent the emergence of a powerful Euro-Asian economic block?

    http://www.scmp.com/news/china/diplomacy-defence/article/2100968/beijings-new-silk-road-may-extend-moscow-led-eurasian

    ###########################

    I wonder how much more Chumpster would have to do before certain “analysts” like Paul Craig Roberts concede that his intentions were never good?

  6. Sure, NK has a mini-nuke, just like Saddam had WMD’s, Syria was gassing its own people and Qaddafi was handing out Viagra for Libyan rape parties.

    Trump has devolved into a cartoon character, one that sucker-punches another, then runs home, locks the front door, then leans out the window, issuing taunts…except he didn’t lock the back door.

    Where’s Ivanka Trump, who cried so many tears over ISIS killing Syrian babies that it moved Trump to attack Syria? Doesn’t she care about ‘gook’ babies? She ought to, they’ll be working soon in her clothing factories.

    P.S. If you go to North Korea online outlets, they don’t carry the (((MSM))) LIE about Kim wanting to attack Guam, just the (((MSM))).
    Wonder what kind of hellish mischief our Overlords are up to now? An attack on NK would give Israeli Crime Minister Nuttyahoo the diversion he needs to carpet bomb Gaza and take over the al Aqsa mosque, and a way to divert the corruption cases mounting against him and his wife, as shown by this excellent web page:

    http://semiticcontroversies.blogspot.com/2017/08/jews-crime-and-corruption_9.html

    1. I think North Korea has nukes, probably at least fusion-enhanced atomic bombs (or “boosted” or whatever they’re called), and they probably have advanced to the point where they can make them small enough to deliver by way of a missile.

      But here’s the thing: I think the U.S. government actually wanted North Korea to develop nukes (and some means of delivery). The U.S. government knows they would never use them offensively, so the U.S. government sat back and refused to negotiate, while also doing everything to stifle/undermine any effort by the Korean people to reunify or peacefully coexist.

      Why? Because because by letting North Korea develop a small nuclear arsenal, they have created the perfect pretext with which to fool the average ignorant, mentally and morally incompetent American stooge.

      1. Consider
        It’s all FEAR mongering !

        There is an intense struggle at the top of the world’s power struggle.

        BLOODLINES V GNOSTIC ILLUMINATI

        At the highest level, the battle is between the 13 bloodline families who have ruled the West for centuries, if not millennia

        and their age old opponents, the gnostic illuminati who are opposed to bloodline rule.

        The people behind Hillary Clinton are the bloodlines, who report ultimately to Baron Evelyn de Rothschild as well as to the old Italian aristocracy behind the P2 Freemason lodge.

        This can be confirmed by endorsements from bloodline controlled media such as the Economist Magazine owned by the Rothschilds and the P2 Agnelli brothers.

        It can also be confirmed by wikileaks e-mails showing Hillary Clinton is intimately subservient to Lynn Forest de Rothschild, who is the wife of Baron Rothschild.

        The main source of the bloodlines’ power is their control of the process for creating and distributing money, ie their ownership of most of the world’s central banks.

        They have used this money power to bribe, blackmail and assassinate people at the top levels of power in order to ensure their control.

        They also control the corporate media and have been using every propaganda tool in their hands … CNN is known as the Clinton News Network.

        The people behind Donald Trump include the gnostic illuminati, who recruit geniuses of each age who are not part of the ruling bloodlines, sources in the illuminati say.

        The illuminati favour meritocracy and, since the world’s government agencies and military are meritocratic, it means they control most of the people with guns with the exception of a few mercenaries on the bloodline payrolls.

      2. “Consider
        It’s all FEAR mongering !”

        Well yes, it’s fear-mongering, but I think it’s important to analyze their moves and try to understand the method to their madness whenever possible.

        “At the highest level, the battle is between the 13 bloodline families who have ruled the West for centuries, if not millennia”

        The sad thing is that none of this madness would be happening if the majority of the people would only refuse to go along with it, the ruling tribe not withstanding.

        And speaking of that, I’m sorry to have to report that I’ve recently talked to a few locals around here who are 100% behind Trump and his bellicose rhetoric. The propaganda seems to work on them every single time. They believe it’s time to attack North Korea, and it doesn’t matter to them how many people would have to die. It’s one of those “kill’em all and let God sort’em out” moments.

        Once again I’ve found that there’s simply no reasoning with most American “patriots”. I said things like, “Why do you suppose they were willing to negotiate with Iran about nukes, but not with North Korea? Could it be that the North Korean ‘crisis’ is only a pretext?” And the response is generally just a blank stare. And I said things like, “Did you know that North Korea offered to suspend their nuke and missile programs if the U.S. would stop conducting military exercises on their borders?” And in response they say something like, “Well you can’t trust them. They probably wouldn’t keep their part of the bargain blah blah blah”.

        I think I give up trying to convince any “American” of anything. It’s a hopeless, thankless task. Orange Clown and his handlers are exactly the government that many “Americans” need, want and deserve.

      3. Good point Harold Smith. If the US had stayed out of it, Korea would have become one country again long ago. The US Military/Security Complex desperately NEEDS two Koreas to keep the tax dollars flowing in. The fact that the DPRK remains communist is a two-fer.

    1. Trump could take over Citgo from Venezuela and give ‘Put-On’ his cut:

      Venezuela’s state-run PDVSA has reduced crude sales to its U.S. refining unit Citgo Petroleum while increasing supply to Russia’s Rosneft (ROSN.MM), following a plan signed in May to catch up on overdue deliveries, according to PDVSA documents, sources from the company and its joint ventures.

      Venezuela’s oil output has declined since 2012 with the fall accelerating this year amid a lack of investment and payment delays to suppliers. Almost all of Petróleos de Venezuela’s customers are receiving reduced volumes. That includes the United States, which has received less Venezuelan crude oil this year.

      PDVSA agreed in the catch-up plan to compensate Rosneft for the delayed cargoes, since the oil is being sent in lieu of payment for loans.

      Venezuela’s Oil Minister Nelson Martinez at a forum in St Petersburg in June said Rosneft would receive some 70,000 barrels per day (bpd) as payment for a $1.5 billion loan extended to PDVSA in 2016. He did not disclose the reason for the supply agreement.

      Days later, Russia publicly released a renegotiation of bilateral loans with Venezuela, an OPEC-member. The Russian Audit Chamber said it would slash projected state revenue by nearly $1 billion this year to reflect expectations that Venezuela may not make timely payments.

      https://www.reuters.com/article/us-venezuela-usa-citgo-pete-idUSKBN1AJ1JI

  7. Trump calls for unity as far-right rally erupts in violence:

    https://www.yahoo.com/news/far-rally-virginia-erupts-violent-clashes-162420561.html

    David Duke wants to take his country back. From whom? From the Jews, I guess.

    https://www.yahoo.com/news/ex-kkk-leader-david-duke-180315141.html

    These are all wonderful news. America needs a good race war: Whites against non-Whites, Jews against non-Jews. We can only welcome all that here in Russia; we’ll sit back and enjoy the show … for once.

    1. Circ –

      I’ll help you get back on topic..like N Korea or Kim.. 🙂

      From the article:
      Normally reticent First Lady Melania Trump took to Twitter to respond to the demonstrations, writing, “Our country encourages freedom of speech, but let’s communicate w/o hate in our hearts. No good comes from violence. #Charlottesville.”

      She is as phony as the Buffoon-In-Chief’s hair.. You know, THE one who is threatening to wipe out N Korea..!!

      Her ‘Hubby’ can respond with threats of HORRIBLE force…. but WHITES are wrong to ACTUALLY do something other than talk..!!?? She is a white traitor.

  8. So, whatever happened to “Talk softly, and carry a big stick”?

    The key to the Korean peninsula without horrific repercussions is essentially through China. No further bluster, please. Simply: 1) Japan, South Korea, and Taiwan feel threatened by nuclear North Korea and have decided to pursue their own nuclear programs, we (the USA) will follow the same policy as China toward North Korea in this regard – essentially, we’ll do nothing. This goes against proliferation, but the alternative is worse. If a detente could be achieved the reduction of nuclear stockpiles would comprise phase two. 2) Severe economic sanctions on China.

    The absolute worst thing the USA could do is initiate another war, whether preceded by yet another false flag event or not. The second worst thing is to continue the bluster. The third worst is to do nothing, excepting starting violence – a cardinal mistake. The safer course would be a combination of one and two above. China would probably effect the removal of the Kim regime fairly rapidly when faced with option one, especially from Japan, and the Kim dynasty might be replaced by a new regime more amenable to safeguards and oversight with Chinese participation.

    The economic sanctions on China would be imposed only if no meaningful dialogue and tangible results could be achieved in the current naked aggression in the South China Sea. This would include fishing rights, sensible marine borders, and the right to navigation. Japan’s oil is transported through this region and many other nations will not tolerate the current stand off. This problem could be far more protracted and dangerous in my view.

    1. Note: Japan, South Korea, and Taiwan may move unilaterally with option one anyway if nothing is done as the weak Obama, G.W. Bush, and worst of all, Clinton administrations dangerously corrupt and suicidal performances. Arms dealers in the USA can rejoice – the USA could publicly posture as attempting to prevent nuclear proliferation by arming Japan, South Korea, and Taiwan to the teeth, though those nations should proceed anyway. Then the nuclear programs may not be necessary if China sees the wisdom and reasonable alternative to heightened local danger and potential all out suicidal war.

    2. @ Winston

      I don’t think you can take any of this U.S. “government” inspired fear-mongering nonsense at face value. Japan and South Korea for example understand perfectly well that North Korea’s nukes are intended to be merely a deterrent. (And they’re doing the same thing in Europe. All those NATO countries know that Russia isn’t planning on invading, but they’re absurdly pretending otherwise, apparently so as to ingratiate themselves to their imperial masters).

      And to the extent that any country in the area actually does feel “threatened”, they should put the blame on the U.S. “government” for refusing to negotiate a diplomatic solution to the “problem”.

      1. My view is essentially that a certain category of jewish aligned regimes are highly dangerous. The USSR, bad as it was, did not tolerate nuclear proliferation among satellites or allies. The book “Red Star Rogue” describes the destruction of one of the USSR’s own nuclear equipped submarines, sent on a still unknown Pacific theater mission by jewish KGB Chairman Yuri Andropov. The book concludes that the Russian military installed fail safe measures against just such a hazard, and detonated their own submarine before… something happened. While Russia provided assistance by way of skilled pilots in the Korean war, China provided over a million soldiers. If you think the Japanese or Taiwanese feel more comfortable facing the Chinese regime without US assistance, you’d better look again. China states quite openly that the Republic of Taiwan is not a legitimate government and that Taiwan is Communist Chinese territory, and Japan must answer for World War 2.

        There is utterly no dissension possible regarding North Korea’s upgraded arsenal. For 64 years, the USA has had a defensive posture on the Korean peninsula. The North Koreans have blown up a South Korean civilian airliner (caught red handed) have kidnapped civilians from Japan, South Korea, and Hong Kong by sea operations, and have given every indication of being a “little more than a poor little terrorized country” vis-a vis the United States, South Korea, or Japan. They have systematically starved over a million of their own people, and the refugee problem in China is considerable. “Negotiation” about the North Korean nuclear program has been going on for 24 years, and this is the result.

        Having said that, the US track record has destroyed US credibility by way on insane zionist inspired neo con actions in the ME, Ukraine, and North Africa. A hostile attack by the US against North Korea would finish whatever hope for restored sanity is left. Doing nothing, however, or hoping for negotiations to produce anything positive without some kind of incentive and leverage is unrealistic.

      2. “For 64 years, the USA has had a defensive posture on the Korean peninsula.”

        Nonsense; nothing the U.S. ever does is ever “defensive”.

        “Negotiation” about the North Korean nuclear program has been going on for 24 years, and this is the result.

        That’s misleading. The North Koreans have offered to suspend their nuke and missile programs if the U.S. would stop the military exercises on their border. Seems reasonable, no? But of course the U.S. refuses. Won’t even consider it. Period. The end.

        And if you’ll recall, there was a point in time toward the end of the Clinton regime when things were really looking up on the Korean Peninsula. North Korea was cooperating with the IAEA, there was no plutonium processing going on, the two governments signed a pact where they agreed to work toward reunification, and then what happened?

        The U.S. government led by George Bush deliberately trashed it. The U.S. doesn’t want peace on the Korean Peninsula.

        “We should perhaps remember that President Bush has never liked talking to Koreans. His first overseas visitor was the estimable Kim Dae Jung, whom Bush snubbed.

        Bush, as he was eager to demonstrate, was not a fan. Kim’s sin? He was instituting a sunshine policy with the North, ending a half-century of estrangement. Bush, who looked upon North Korea as the most potent argument for his obsession to build a national missile defense, saw Kim, a Nobel Peace Prize winner, as nothing but trouble. He sent him home humiliated and empty-handed.” [McGrory, “Bush’s Moonshine Policy,” The Washington Post, December 29, 2002].

  9. Harold – The 1950 Korean war was initiated by North Korea.

    Talking with the North Koreans during the Obama administration didn’t seem to advance things very far, did it?

    The so-called “Sunshine Policy” is seen by many as the crudest propaganda for naive minds – there is no “sunshine” being directed toward the domestic North Korean population, is there?

    I’m no fan of George W. Bush either, however. There were two downed civilian airliners in NY city, which puts him ahead of Kim Jung Il, as well as two others, one probably shot down in PA. Foreknowledge and failure to respond (except in advance investments in financial markets) is certain. One Malaysian airliner appears to have been shot down during the Obama administration era by Ukranian AF, with Dutch investigators continuing to conceal evidence. The Malaysian Airways airplane that “disappeared” near the East coast of Africa where pieces of verified wreckage have been washing up is a different matter completely, an act of sheer mass murder that calls into question the safety of airline travel as a whole from the vicious nature of corrupt governments.

    The USA has had thoroughly corrupt and dangerous leadership in recent years, and the British people are none too pleased with their own, for good reason in my view. The rest of Europe seems unwilling to save themselves or their citizens, possibly because they think the governments are to be trusted in the long run. I don’t think either they, the North Koreans, or the Chinese are particularly trustworthy either.

    The only governments which show maturity are to be found in Russia, Hungary, Iceland with a few others leaning in that direction, notably Poland. In Asia Cambodia and Vietnam have improved, as well as Thailands notable rejection of globalist domination. The jew Globalist/Internationale is having trouble in much of Asia. Americans elected Mr. Trump primarily to address the huge mistakes the globalists and jew-marxists have committed with the resultant misery and growing social and economic disorder to the country. One of the usual jew-marxist lines is how they are to be “trusted”. Why all the refugees in China then? If their own people don’t trust them with excellent reasons, why should you or I?

    The greatest weakness of the Trump administration is to pursue a hostile policy toward Russia. He has been all but forced into this by the Globalists in Congress and the media. It really boils down to sales of Natural Gas to Europe in a large measure. In Asia, anyone who trusts North Korea deserves their rule and the absolute horror that comes with it, along the usual jew marxist lines.

    1. If Mr. Trump decides to continue ‘vocalizing’ vis-a vis North Korea, he’d be on much safer grounds by appealing along Reaganesque lines to freedoms (taken for granted in the West) and challenge North Korea to allow all citizens who wish to leave to do so, either to China or South Korea. Even Clinton summed it up by his simple statement that any aggressive action by North Korea would mean the end of their country. It only needs to be said once, by any administration.

    2. “Harold – The 1950 Korean war was initiated by North Korea.”

      So what if it did? That’s irrelevant. And who are you to say it was right or wrong in the first place? It was a civil war. Lots of countries have internal strife/civil wars. It was a matter for the Korean people to settle among themselves, not for you or imperialist powers to decide. The bigger problem happens when foreign powers intervene, like the U.S. did in Korea. Let’s face it, the U.S. government had no more business interfering on the Korean Peninsula than it did in Vietnam or anywhere else. But you apologists for the state can never admit as much, can you? Why even now as I type this, the U.S. is threatening to intervene in Venezuela.

      (BTW look at the situation today. Compared to occupied South Korea, which has very little say in its own affairs, North Korea at least has some sovereignty).

      “Talking with the North Koreans during the Obama administration didn’t seem to advance things very far, did it?”

      LOL! Seriously? For that matter look what 70 years of “talks” have wrought in the Mideast: The plight of the Palestinians is worse than ever before, no? The problem with “talks” is that if one of the parties isn’t negotiating in good faith, they go nowhere.

      “I’m no fan of George W. Bush either, however.”

      Neither am I but that’s irrelevant (and I think you know it). The point was that in trashing serious Korean peace efforts (bringing us to where we are today), Jew puppet George Bush was apparently just following orders; it’s clearly U.S. “government” policy to prevent reconciliation between North and South Korea.

      “There were two downed civilian airliners in NY city, which puts him ahead of Kim Jung Il, as well as two others, one probably shot down in PA.”

      What the hell are you talking about? Now you want to change the subject to 9/11? And you’re going to imply that “Bush did 9/11”?

      “Foreknowledge and failure to respond (except in advance investments in financial markets) is certain.”

      LOL! By now basically the whole world recognizes that 9/11 was plotted and carried out by Jews, with the complicity of high level traitors (Jew puppets) in the U.S. government, but you’re going to cling to the preposterous, Jew-friendly “limited hangout” narrative? You’re going to imply that 19 Arabs with box cutters did 9/11, and “fire” brought the towers? And you expect to be taken seriously; and you expect to be taken seriously, here, of all places?

      1. Harold- I’m still trying to understand how, after many long comments made in previous posts over a period of years where I referred to “Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth”, “Pilots for 9/11 Truth” and most recently “Scholars for 9/11 Truth” on this site you can remotely suggest the above. I merely stated Bush has more airliners to answer for than Kim Il Jung. It was you who brought Bush into the discussion originally, not me.

        Addressing your earlier point, Kim Dae Jung, like Elie Weasel, was indeed a recipient of the Nobel Peace Prize (which is where you brought up Bush). The Nobel prize awarded to Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar means much more. I think the issue of the “Sunshine Policy” was basically North Korean “Moonshine” aimed at terrified minds. No one seems to wish to examine the state of the North Korean people, only to scapegoat the USA for the situation there.

        I’m afraid you and I disagree about the nature of the North Korean regime. I again would suggest hearing what the refugees who have left will uniformly tell you.

        The one area most of us seem to agree on is that it would be a serious mistake for the USA to initiate military action, the position I took in my opening statement.

      2. “Harold- I’m still trying to understand how, after many long comments made in previous posts over a period of years where I referred to “Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth”, “Pilots for 9/11 Truth” and most recently “Scholars for 9/11 Truth” on this site you can remotely suggest the above.”

        You said: “Foreknowledge and failure to respond (except in advance investments in financial markets) is certain.” That’s like saying, “That Jack the Ripper wasn’t very nice to women is certain.”
        And that’s basically the limited hangout position of the Jew trolls and apologists for the state.
        (If the work of “Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth” meant anything to you, you’d say that U.S. “government” complicity in the crime is certain).

        “I merely stated Bush has more airliners to answer for than Kim Il Jung. It was you who brought Bush into the discussion originally, not me.”

        Of course I mentioned Bush because he is the historical actor who, as presidential puppet ruler at the time, had the duty to trash the peace initiative and preserve the status quo on the Korean Peninsula. (BTW as far as downed airliners are concerned, if you’re determined to use that as some kind of a metric of government evil, you need to broaden the scope beyond 9/11, IMO).

        “Addressing your earlier point, Kim Dae Jung, like Elie Weasel, was indeed a recipient of the Nobel Peace Prize (which is where you brought up Bush). The Nobel prize awarded to Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar means much more.”

        Nobody’s perfect, but you’re actually going to compare Kim Dae Jung to shameless fraud “Elie Weasel”? And you expect to be taken seriously?

        Anyway, my point was that there was an indigenous, apparently sincere Korean peace initiative going on, which if successful, would’ve seriously threatened the rationale for U.S. occupation forces on the peninsula, so the U.S. government, by way of the sitting puppet ruler, Bush, had to trash it. That was my point.

        Whether or not you personally feel Kim Dae Jung deserved a Nobel prize for his efforts is irrelevant.

        “I think the issue of the “Sunshine Policy” was basically North Korean “Moonshine” aimed at terrified minds.”

        And I think you’re just being contrary.

        “No one seems to wish to examine the state of the North Korean people, only to scapegoat the USA for the situation there.”

        Your pathetic statist apologia is really starting to get on my nerves. History shows that basically everything the U.S. government does, especially in the realm of foreign policy, is manifestly evil. You seem to want to ignore the damning historical record and imply that U.S. Korean policy is (and was) somehow morally beyond reproach; altruistic even. Whether Kim Jong Un is “good” or “bad” by some subjective standard is irrelevant to the fact that the U.S. government has no moral right to intervene in the affairs of other countries.

        “I’m afraid you and I disagree about the nature of the North Korean regime. I again would suggest hearing what the refugees who have left will uniformly tell you.”

        The fundamental issue is U.S. interventionism on the Korean Peninsula, not the subjective “nature of the North Korean regime”; (which is neither your business nor mine; nor is it the business of the Jew-controlled U.S. “government”). You have no standing to judge the fitness of Kim Jong Un as the ruler of North Korea. The “refugees” are of course entitled to their own opinions, but if for your own knowledge you seek an objective picture, then you would obviously need to broaden the scope beyond just the opinions of “refugees”).

    3. You are wrong again about the North starting the Korean War!

      From http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/46919.htm

      “Nineteen forty-nine marked a watershed year. The Chinese Communist Revolution, the Soviet Atomic Bomb, the massive reorganization of the National Security State in the U.S. all occurred that year. In 1950 Washington issued its famous National Security Paper-68 (NSC-68) which outlined the agenda for a global anti-communist campaign, requiring the tripling of the American defense budget. Congress balked at this all-encompassing blueprint when in the deathless words of Secretary of State Dean Acheson “Thank God! Korea came along.” Only months before Acheson had made a speech in which he pointedly omitted Korea from America’s “Defense perimeter.”

      “The Korean War seemed to vindicate everything written and said about the” international communist conspiracy. In popular myth on June 25, 1950 the North Korean Army suddenly attacked without warning, overwhelming surprised ROK defenders. In fact the entire 38th Parallel had been progressively militarized and there had been numerous cross border incursions by both sides going back to 1949. On numerous occasions Syngman Rhee had to be restrained by American advisers from invading the north. The Korean civil war was all but inevitable. Given postwar American plans for access globally to resources, markets and cheaper labor power any form of national liberation, communist or liberal democratic, was to be opposed. Acheson and his second, Dean Rusk, told President Truman that “we must draw the line here!” Truman decided to request authorization for American intervention from the United Nations and bypassed Congress thereby leading to widespread opposition and, later, a return to Republican rule under Dwight Eisenhower..”

      1. David- So, American advisers “restrained” Syngman Rhee but the war was all but inevitable? Where was the restraint from north of the 38th?

  10. I have claimed all along that N Korea has NO NUKES, and the sabre-rattling is a False-Flag threat…. and NOW ‘Put-On’ agrees with me..!!

    Go figger.. 🙂

    Putin: North Korea Has Zero Nukes, But Trillions in Rare Minerals

    http://yournewswire.com/putin-north-korean-crisis-ww3/

    Vladimir Putin has warned that the North Korean nuclear crisis is being orchestrated as a false flag by the New World Order with the goal of starting a major global conflict that will escalate quickly into World War 3.

    As tensions continue to rise between the United States and North Korea, with threats of “fire and fury” coming from the U.S., Putin has warned that we should read between the lines and see the crisis for what it really is – a New World Order manufactured false flag to advance their agenda for a one world government.

    “Kim is saying he will launch missiles in the vicinity of Guam, an American territory in the Pacific,” Putin said at a public appearance in Sochi, “but you must stop and think why he would say this, and if he really said this, or if he is being used as a tool of the globalists.”

    The corporate media, led by pro-war Washington Post have begun pushing the claim that North Korea has miniature nuclear weapons that they could use to hit Guam, or Japan, or South Korea, or possibly even the west coast of the United States.

    The Post stated on Wednesday:
    “North Korea has successfully produced a miniaturized nuclear warhead that can fit inside its missiles, crossing a key threshold on the path to becoming a full-fledged nuclear power, U.S. intelligence officials have concluded in a confidential assessment.”

    But according to Putin, the story being pushed in the mainstream media is a deep state fabrication designed convince the public that the hermit nation is a global threat.

    “They know they can easily provoke the North Koreans and they will react, but the story that they are a threat is false.”

    “I will tell you the facts about North Korea: They don’t have nuclear bombs. They don’t have Western-controlled banks. They don’t depend on the US dollar. What they do have is a land full of wealth in unmined minerals.”

    “We have seen all of this before. The same people said the same things about weapons of mass destruction in Iraq. They said they could hit major European cities within 45 minutes. But after the Iraq war, after independent international inquiries, we find nothing. The cabal just wanted war.”

    There is a major historical battle at the moment between globalized central bankers and those who refuse to fall in line. While Putin does not believe Kim Jong-un is a good guy, he believes in national sovereignty and he rejects the globalist vision.

    When Putin talks about the “cabal” he is referring to the Rothschild-led international banking syndicate and their plans for a one world government. North Korea is one of the last countries to refuse a Rothschild centralized bank. Libya didn’t have one and look what happened to them. Syria doesn’t have one, and the New World Order is working overtime at destroying the country.

    North Korea’s mineral wealth
    Putin’s claims about the real reasons for going to war with North Korea stand up to scrutiny.

    Their national banking system isn’t controlled by the IMF and they don’t have a Rothschild-controlled central bank, nor are they dependent on the US dollar.

    The country also has between $6-10 trillion in untapped mineral resources.

    According to Quartz, below the nation’s surface are “vast mineral reserves, including iron, gold, magnesite, zinc, copper, limestone, molybdenum, graphite, and more—all told about 200 kinds of minerals.”

    North Korea is also sitting on large quantities of rare earth metals, which factories in nearby countries need to produce smartphones and other tech products for Western consumption.

    Estimates as to the value of the nation’s mineral resources have varied greatly over the years, made difficult by secrecy and lack of access. One estimate from a South Korean mining company places the value at over $6 trillion. Another from a South Korean research institute places the value closer to $10 trillion.

  11. @Winston:

    We usually are in good agreement on a lot of subjects, but your following statements are totally false:

    “For 64 years, the USA has had a defensive posture on the Korean peninsula. The North Koreans have blown up a South Korean civilian airliner (caught red handed) have kidnapped civilians from Japan, South Korea, and Hong Kong by sea operations, and have given every indication of being a “little more than a poor little terrorized country” vis-a vis the United States, South Korea, or Japan. They have systematically starved over a million of their own people, and the refugee problem in China is considerable.”

    Harold Smith did a brilliant job of refuting your first sentence. So I won’t add anymore.

    North Korea has NOT systematically starved their own people.  The starvation is caused by the Yankees and the South Koreans purposefully timing their aggressive military drills during the harvest times in North Korea.  Why?  Because then North Korea needs to mobilize its soldiers and civilians to counter the possible US/South Korea provocation and leave the fields of harvest.

    There is an article on Information Clear Housing that deals specifically with this evil Yankee/South Korea act of war.  I will try to find it.

    As to the terrorism charge, there was a torpedoed South Korean military boat a few years ago that was blamed on the North, but it was later proved to be another false flag operation from the US/South Korea.  This is just one example of the false flag terrorist acts committed by the US/South Korea and blamed on the North, there are many other examples.

    You need to study a bit more on the Korean situation before making lamestream media comments about the North.

    1. David- Speaking to your earlier point, “the war was all but inevitable” I disagree. The bottom line is the North invaded and nearly took over. In the 1950’s there was a tremendous effort to correct the jew marxist influence in the US government from the FDR administration. You call it something entirely different. The uncomfortable fact for some is that South Korea today is a prosperous modern society while North Korea is ruled by a vicious pig marxist nomenclature. Anyone suggesting this is the fault of the USA or it’s partners needs professional help, which I’m not qualified to give.

      Why not ask the refugees who wind up as far as Thailand and which you did not address what the situation is like in North Korea? None I’ve seen so far think it’s the fault of the USA or South Korean military drills. There are thousands of them, with thousands more wishing they could leave.

      1. Winston –

        You wrote:
        “Anyone suggesting this is the fault of the USA or it’s partners needs professional help, which I’m not qualified to give.”

        The US Government admitted they controlled the Korean war to break American servicemen they allowed to be captured.

        US Army published a 71 page MANUAL which outlined the REAL reason for the Korean War. It was…

        Department of the Army Publication 30-101, 15 May 1956 – “Communist Interrogation, Indoctrination, And Exploitation Of Prisoners Of War.”

        The “professional help” already beat you to it…and told why decades ago:

        Here are some methods of control used by Pharisee-Jew Psychs they found in Korea:

        https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/452656/manipulation-of-human-behaviour.pdf

        ‘Introduction’ – page 1:

        Background
        The notoriety that Communist exploitation of United Nations prisoners of war has received in the United States gave impetus to professional and lay concerns with problems of the manipulation of behavior.
        (pp – 3, 10, 13, 14, 16, 20, 23, 24, 28, 32, 39, 67)

        Certain other commentators have viewed the successful exploitation of captives in Korea….

        16,25, 31, 61, 62, 63.

      2. “The uncomfortable fact for some is that South Korea today is a prosperous modern society while North Korea is ruled by a vicious pig marxist nomenclature.”

        How’s that an “uncomfortable fact” for anyone? Countries that cede their sovereignty to the beast generally prosper – or at least haven’t YET suffered catastrophic destruction – while countries that refuse to take orders from the beast get sanctions, a smear campaign, assassinations, coups, terrorist attacks, invasions, “air campaigns”, depleted uranium, etc., etc., etc.

        If North Korea or Cuba for example all of a sudden became “open” “democratic” societies, they’d be quickly “destabilized” and subverted. Jew money, weapons, agents provocateurs, “opposition groups”, etc., would pour in, and the end would soon follow. Don’t believe me? Ask Jacobo Arbenz, Mohammad Mosaddegh or Salvador Allende, for example.

        “Anyone suggesting this is the fault of the USA or it’s partners needs professional help, which I’m not qualified to give.”

        See above. Of course it’s (largely) the fault of the criminal enterprise known as the U.S. “government”.

        Why is Iran arming itself? Why is Russia arming itself? Why is China arming itself? Why does North Korea want nukes? Why did Hugo Chavez create the Bolivarian civilian militias (that Maduro apparently seeks to expand)?

        Because they’re under siege by a geopolitical serial killer, that’s why. You can’t blame a country under siege from adopting a siege mentality, can you?

      3. Winston –

        South Korea is NO model at all. ALL national leaders are corrupt.. and LIARS.

        Former South Korean president Park Geun-hye on trial for corruption

        Park accused of putting pressure on firms including Samsung into paying millions in bribes in return for business favors.

        South Korea’s former president, Park Geun-hye, has denied corruption charges at the start of a criminal trial that could send the country’s first female leader to prison for life.

        Prosecutors accuse Park of abusing her power and colluding with her longtime friend, Choi Soon-sil, to pressure major South Korean companies such as Samsung into paying tens of millions of dollars in bribes in return for business favours.

        Park’s secretive and allegedly corrupt relationship with Choi, along with wider revelations about the cozy ties between South Korea’s political and economic elites, sparked mass protests, ending in Park’s impeachment last December and her removal from office by a constitutional court ruling in March.

        Earlier this month, the country elected Moon Jae-in, a left-leaning liberal, by a landslide in an election called after Park’s indictment. Moon, a former human rights lawyer, has vowed to punish leaders of the country’s chaebol conglomerates found guilty of committing crimes, and to challenge the collusive relationship between politics and big business.

        https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/may/23/former-south-korean-president-park-geun-hye-on-trial-for-corruption

        In South Korea, Confidante of Ousted President Gets 3 Years in Prison

        The sentencing of the confidante, Choi Soon-sil, was the first to come in any of the trials resulting from one of the biggest corruption scandals in the country’s history. The scandal provoked months of huge protests that culminated in the parliamentary impeachment of Ms. Park in December and her formal removal from office and arrest on corruption charges in March.

        In the sentencing on Friday, Ms. Choi was convicted of conspiring with officials and professors of Ewha Womans University in the capital, Seoul, including its former president, Choi Kyung-hee, to help her daughter, Chung Yoo-ra, win admission there in 2015 despite a lack of qualifications. A recent Education Ministry inquiry revealed that Ms. Chung had been admitted at the expense of candidates with better credentials.

        https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/23/world/asia/south-korea-choi-soon-sil-sentence-prison.html

        ALL national leader ARE LIARS..!! 🙂

  12. The reason for the Korean War was NOT to WIN in a conventional sense.

    The purpose was to gather information to use against the West, and Americans in particular.

    The information gathering process was called – ‘brain-washing’ – in order to keep secret it’s true nature and reasons for the mental breakdown and torture.

    “The Manchurian Candidate” was INTENTIONALLY used as a type of MASS BRAINWASHING, itself, and masked the real reasons for the processes used. The Pharisee-Jews in Hollywood were glad to help the Pharisee-Jew Bankers and Psychs..!!

    US Army published a 71 page MANUAL which outlined the REAL reason for the Korean War. It was Department of the Army Publication 30-101, 15 May 1956 – “Communist Interrogation, Indoctrination, And Exploitation Of Prisoners Of War.”

    In there, it explained the reason for the Korean War…. was to CAPTURE many US servicemen…. in order to find out how and why so many different cultures came together in WWI and WWII to fight alongside each other against a common foe. That was highly irregular… since cultures do not easily mix.

    Once that was found out the unseen Pharisee-Jew Bankers could finance programs to undermine those reasons, starting with grade-school aged Americans. Then, everyone after a few decades.

    The plan worked… then, and still does TODAY..!!

    They found that….
    ownership of private property,
    strong family ties,
    freedom of religion,
    freedom of speech,
    freedom to travel…..
    ….and freedom to VOTE(ha-ha!!) were very high on the list of reasons for American strength and perseverance.
    All of those reasons, and many more, which were not available in most countries, were undermined and attacked.

    Hollywood jumped right in. Went global. Disney helped with the kids. Atheist icon Madalyn Murray O’Hair also enabled many victories for the criminals.

    Cowards in the US Congress ‘Mafia’ were eager to join. The statutes and Acts are still being passed to form a SOVIET AMERICA..!!

    London’s Pharisee-Jew Bankers WON the ‘Korean War’…. As usual..!!

    TODAY – Korea is a real live ‘FEMA Camp Country’ experiment to see how little a large population needs to stay focused, productive and LOYAL… AND it ain’t THAT much..!! N Korea also makes a good PAID-OFF enemy… as does Russia.

    Here are some methods of control used by Pharisee-Jew Psychs they found in Korea:
    https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/452656/manipulation-of-human-behaviour.pdf

    ‘Introduction’ – page 1:

    Background
    The notoriety that Communist exploitation of United Nations prisoners of war has received in the United States gave impetus to professional and lay concerns with problems of the manipulation of behavior.
    (pp – 3, 10, 13, 14, 16, 20, 23, 24, 28, 32, 39, 67)

  13. Good stuff by Harold and David Chu.

    I find Pat’s hypotheses make me uncomfortable, obliging me to do more homework! (I am not mocking or denying)

    I find it strange that South Korea, Taiwan and Japan invite the US to come play Bruce Willis with nuclear bazookas in their backyard. Maybe they too know it’s just a charade.

    If Putin is right about no NO nukes it means if a war starts the US will have to roll out the same excuse that it used for nuking Japan. It will nuke NK to “save lives”.

    1. Flan –

      I post comments here to make everyone “uncomfortable” and there is more to the Pacific Rim territories and both Koreas and China, than what MSM want to tell.

      BUT… I SHALL..!! AS usual… 🙂

      Example:

      At the present time, Taiwan is an occupied territory of the United States.

      In the post-World War II period up to today, no treaty or law ever terminated the United States’ jurisdiction over Taiwan.

      THE SAN FRANCISCO PEACE TREATY(SFPT 1952) & TAIWAN

      Summary

      *THEREFORE, it can be argued that under the SFPT, Taiwan is under the exclusive jurisdiction of the United States. The decision to delegate that jurisdiction (in any way, shape, or form) to the Republic of China military forces is not directly authorized by the SFPT.

      http://www.civil-taiwan.org/sfpt-1952.htm

      ……..

      –Introduction and Outline for Modern Taiwanese History–

      http://www.taiwanbasic.com/civil/tmodhiae.htm

      (43) At the present time, Taiwan is an occupied territory of the United States. Neither the SFPT, the Treaty of Taipei nor any other subsequent legal instruments after 1952 changed the status of Taiwan.

      Being still under military occupation, Taiwan has not yet reached a “final political status.”

      (44) Military government continues till legally supplanted. The US as the principal occupying power has never transferred the sovereignty over Taiwan or title to its territory to any other government.

      (45) When reviewing the military histories of Puerto Rico, Guam, the Philippines, and Cuba, it is clear that for a territorial cession, “the military government of the (principal) occupying power does not end with the coming into force of the peace treaty.”

      In the post-World War II period up to today, no treaty or law ever terminated the United States’ jurisdiction over Taiwan.

      By contrast, United States’ jurisdiction over Puerto Rico, Guam, the Philippines and Cuba were all ended by treaties or other affirmative actions of the United States Government.

      Notes: With the end of USMG jurisdiction in California, Puerto Rico, Philippines, Guam, Cuba, and the Ryukyus, each has become either (a) a sovereign nation, or (b) “part” of another sovereign nation. Significantly, each area has a fully functioning “civil government.” Taiwan is clearly the exception.

      Since the end of 1945, it has been the official policy of the United States government that the post-World War II status of Taiwan is “an unsettled question . . . . ”

      United States Military Government (USMG) in Taiwan has begun as of October 25, 1945, with the surrender of Japanese troops.

      Importantly, the military government of the principal occupying power does not end with the coming into force of the peace treaty, but continues until legally supplanted. Specifications for the continuance of USMG jurisdiction over Taiwan is given in the SFPT.

      Conclusion: today, the Taiwanese people are entitled to enjoy “fundamental rights” under the US Constitution, similar to the residents of other US overseas territories.

      See also: http://www.taiwanbasic.com/key/dc/delima6.htm

  14. @ Everyone

    I am deeply disappointed with the quality of the comments on this board. Especially with the universal assumption that the threat of WWIII breaking out as a result of the North Korean crisis is a matter that should concern all us adults here to the exclusion of far more important topics.

    I refer to the shocking news that Taylor Swift has been recently groped. This is where it’s at right now. Forget North Korea, friends. Think of Taylor’s ass. Get your darn priorities right!

    Just take a look at this shocking picture. Where this evil groper has his disgusting hand. Note the red circle.

    https://i.ytimg.com/vi/JgHS4E7rIoQ/maxresdefault.jpg

    Doesn’t this incident make your blood boil?

    And all you guys can think about is North Korea.

    So disappointing.

    1. Well said, Sardonicus! The failure to recognize the importance of the Taylor Swift incident is an anti-feminist plot. It is motivated by male misogyny. The attempt to focus minds on North Korea at such a moment of crisis for women is an obvious ploy by the patriarchy to undermine confidence in the female sex and advance the agenda of the evil chauvinist male.

  15. Feminist Reader,
    I’d never heard of Taylor Swift until today.
    But how does that old Hollywood song go?
    “There’s no vinism like chauvinism”

  16. Nothing to do with the subject here. Just to inform that 91 years ago on this day 13th August of 1926 was born one of the greatest man to have ever existed in the history of the planet. Long live Comandante Fidel Castro.
    Happy birthday. “Hasta la victoria siempre”. Zio stooge Trumpeta preparate para lo que te va a pasar.

  17. I apologize in advance — OFF TOPIC, mostly.

    Sometimes I feel grateful for the continued blocking of my access to darkmoon.me from home base. I only gain access when I go on the road — which is not all that often. Going through wifi — different ISP, different IP address — then I get access again — here, today, in SoCal, LA basin. Then, I find so many comments on a given posting (some of which I had read on the truthseeker site) that, after reading, I realize quickly I have nothing further to contribute — usually.

    I shall point out here that Jim Stone [access: http://82.221.129.208/%5D called BS convincedly on the NK/Guam/mass psy ops well before the posting on darkmoon.me. I am not surprised no commenter cited Jim Stone’s analysis. Most do not know of this intrepid investigative journalist. His most recent posting —

    [intro ]
    Your daily “Perspective”
    Accomplishing “fair and balanced” discourse one censorship event at a time ™
    Children should not be taught Christian values: 21 percent toxic: Green light, below trigger threshold
    Homosexuals should not teach children gay values: 80 percent toxic.Red flag, censorship, and ban.
    Perspective is google’s new artificial intelligence you can embed in your forum or comment section, to make sure everything people are allowed to say is “fair and balanced”, as you can see from the above.

    [excerpt]
    STORY OF ANAL SEX BETWEEN TWO LITTLE BOYS HITS #1 ON YOUTUBE!
    And that’s because Google (which owns Youtube) is all for it, (as the Perspective AI questions prove)
    There is no way this video could perform as well as it has unless it was getting a massive boost from Google and Youtube. The Perspective AI “anomalies” are NOT Anomalies, Google really is that evil.

    may be of interest to authors of posts here and commenters alike.

    Alan

    1. @ Alan Donelson

      On Topic: Nothing is going to happen between NK and USA. USA forced SK against their will to accept THAAD, mission accomplished.

      On Your Topic: “Google really is that evil.”

      Yep. If my memory serves be properly, one of the funding companies for Google back in its beginning was a CIA front company. We should not expect anything other than what you have said.

    2. Alan –

      “I am not surprised no commenter cited Jim Stone’s analysis. Most do not know of this intrepid investigative journalist.”

      I am not surprised either. There are thousands of good sites to quote. We cannot use them all.

      I have read Stone’s stuff for years. I have to pick and choose… so that makes me the defacto editor….. just my guessing. 🙂

      http://jimstonefreelance.com/

      Some previous topics:
      NUCLEAR BLACKMAIL
      Nasa noticed Haarp anomalies in Hurricane Katrina
      Face it, the Election was STOLEN
      Jim Stone visits Occupy Los Angeles
      Power Grid Tampering to End an Era
      An open letter to the Israeli Mossad
      Fukushima SABOTAGE!
      Mails from Japan, the true perspective
      WHY THE SILENCE IN NEBRASKA?
      Special update for Japanese readers
      Tainted Nightmare
      Truth Project
      Is Intel’s Sandy Bridge on a road to nowhere?
      Antidepressant Nightmare
      Mutation via Vaccination

      BUT… if he is not in on any of it…. and did not help plan it….

      He is guessing like the rest of us. 🙂

  18. The “YUGE” social experiment in Korea was much greater in numbers, in a shorter time frame, than were used in the Tuskegee, Alabama experiment from 1932 until 1972… ALSO conducted by the US GOVERNMENT..!!

    http://www.med.navy.mil/bumed/Documents/Healthcare%20Ethics/Racism-And-Research.pdf

    …..

    These researching Pharisee-Jew psychs could not have gotten this vast amount of extensive information without collusion or participation in the torture and exploitation of American prisoners of war in Korea:

    THE MANIPULATION OF HUMAN BEHAVIOR

    editors
    ALBERT D. BIDERMAN
    Bureau of Social Science Research, Inc.

    HERBERT ZIMMER
    Associate Professor of Psychology
    University of Georgia

    John Wiley & Sons, Inc., New York · London
    https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/452656/manipulation-of-human-behaviour.pdf

    (p. 1, par, 3)
    Certain other commentators have viewed the successful exploitation of captives in Korea and similar incidents as less indicative of increasing perfection in the arts of influence and coercion. They have attributed the successes of the captor to individual defects of background and stamina in the prisoners who collaborated, or to a general deterioration of the vitality of social values and controls in contemporary society (16, 25, 31, 61, 62, 63).

    (p. 2, par. 3)
    Critics of the policy evolved after the Korean War — “The Code of Conduct” — argued that the failure of the policy makers to consider imminent developments in scientific methods of human manipulation has been a more serious error than a lack of understanding of the practices actually encountered by prisoners in Korea.

    One scientist (39, page 54) has written: “. . . one thing is certain — our national policy concerning the conduct of our prisoners of war has not yet fully faced up to psychological developments which are appearing over the horizon of the future.”

    His own conclusion was that armed forces could protect information from an enemy only by denying it to persons subject to capture or, where this was not feasible, by giving such persons means for destroying either themselves or their memories.

    (p. 3, par. 1)
    The dearth of sober information on interrogation has had the unfortunate consequence of facilitating the exploitation of United States prisoners of war by Communist captors(64).(??)

    (p. 10, par. 1)
    Interrogators in this age of “psychological warfare” increasingly seek “social and psychological intelligence” from their sources.
    (What makes Americans from diverse cultures come together to fight a common enemy.)

    As in most social science interviewing, the content of this type of reporting depends on such factors as the subjective state and the personal and cultural frames of reference of the reporter.

    There is much, much more… but too little space here for it.

    Please read it at the link. They reference Orwell’s 1984 many times.

    The FACTS of their admissions… will change your beliefs.

  19. @Winston: We can agree to disagree who started the so-called Korean War, but I think we can agree that North Korea did NOT attack the United States.

    In fact, none of the following sovereign nations have attacked that Great Democracy and Hope of the world:

    Iraq, Afganistan, Yugolsalvia, Syria, Ukraine, Syria, Libya, North Korea, North Vietnam, Cambodia, Laos, etc.

    And yet the United States have attacked them all (Ukraine is not done yet). All under false pretenses or false flags or false narratives to justify Yankee “intervention”.

    So, who is to be believed as to who started the Korean War?

  20. North Korea is THE most sanctioned nation in history.

    Sanctions are weapons of mass starvation inflicted by the Yankees (and Jews) on their targeted “enemies” as was done to the Iraq (over 500,000 Iraqi children died as the direct result of the Yankee sanctions under Clinton and Madeline Not-So-Bright), Yugolsalvia, etc.

    So that lamestream narrative that North Korea purposefully starve their own citizens is a BIG LIE.

    Listen, I am no fan of North Korea, but let’s get the facts right.

      1. Dave –

        You wrote:
        “What? Yankee sanctions are not real?”

        ALL of them… possibly.

        Who knows what is sent and not sent to N Korea….. and by whom.??

        Everybody knows…US gives and sells to China…

        Everybody knows…China gives and sells to N Korea.

        Actually… NO sanctions at all…. when done by middle-man… China.

        Kim’s spends $1 Million+ on his favorite cognac made in France..!!

        http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2357393/Can-guess-bought-cognac-Kim-Jong-Il-revealed-Hennessy-s-biggest-customer-spending-700-000-year-brandy.html

        His favorite missiles are made in China….
        ….with Clinton’s supplied USA technology in 90s.. 🙂

        Chinese Involvement In North Korea’s Nuclear Missile Program: From Trucks To Warheads

        Jul 5, 2017

        https://www.forbes.com/sites/anderscorr/2017/07/05/chinese-involvement-in-north-koreas-nuclear-missile-program-from-warheads-to-trucks/#19821c576f2f

        The distinctive biconic warhead design appears similar to a Pakistani design associated with China.

        China or its ally Pakistan likely provided the warhead design, or the warhead itself, to North Korea.

        Rick Fisher, a Senior Fellow at the International Assessment and Strategy Center said, “Indian sources credit China as the source of the new [Pakistani] ABABEEL warhead multiple reentry vehicle technology and it is indeed plausible Pakistan passed such Chinese-origin technology to North Korea.”

        According to Fisher, China may also have provided the warhead technology directly to North Korea. He said, “as the Hwasong program started during the rule of Kim Jong Il, it is also possible that Chinese technology was originally given to North Korea which fashioned the new warhead that was tested by Pakistan on ABABEEL.”

    1. As I see it, the more that the beast punishes any country, e.g., North Korea, Iran, etc., the more inherently reasonable that country generally is.

      The sanctions and the smear campaign against North Korea are very intense, because the beast is worried that the reasonableness of North Korea will shine through, as it almost did once before.

      It’s like trying to convince a crowd of people that a very mild-mannered/docile animal – that really only wants to be treated fairly – is a vicious killer. You have to put it in a cage and keep poking at it with a stick, and then when it finally gets mad and bares its teeth, that’s when you snap the propaganda picture to present to your audience. See, look at this vicious creature. How can we ever let such a threatening creature out of its cage?

      So the more reasonable Iran or North Korea may appear to be, for example, the more the beast must provoke them. The beast just LOVES it when its caged victims show their teeth in response to the endless provocations. Every time Iran or North Korea does another missile test, for example, it’s pure propaganda gold.

    2. David – Thank you for your views. The North Korean refugees speak for themselves, and are unanimous about their own government’s attitude toward it’s people.

      I think we agree that for the USA to initiate a pre-emptive attack on North Korea would be a very serious mistake.

      1. “The North Korean refugees speak for themselves, and are unanimous about their own government’s attitude toward it’s people.”

        How is that relevant?

        “I think we agree that for the USA to initiate a pre-emptive attack on North Korea would be a very serious mistake.”

        If the North Korean government is so bad in your view, then why would it be “a very serious mistake”?
        After all, if you have the moral authority to assess guilt/culpability, then why wouldn’t you also have the moral authority to mete out the appropriate punishment, no?

      2. Winston, you are welcome. The North Korean dictatorship is as bad as it comes, but the Jews/Yankees make them look like naughty children in kindergartens.

        Yes, let’s hope the crazies in the Black House and the Pentagram don’t start WW3 in either North Korea or Iran.

      3. Harold – Perhaps you haven’t heard China’s recently stated position, though even without it I would oppose a unilateral attack of sheer aggression. I thought Iraq was a serious mistake as well, in case you didn’t notice.

  21. North Korea is no threat to Israel so the USA will not attack unless there is direct damage to America, which is unlikely.

    If it was Russia or Iran the US would have attacked by now.

    It all depends on Tel Aviv and their minions, the Neocon-Zionist Lobby.

  22. It ain’t gonna happen, ever.

    If there is a pre-emptive strike against the fat freak in the North with a bad haircut, it will most likely be fast, from the air, probably involve the use of nukes, and it will be achieved with a minimal amount of assets. There is not a damn thing China could do to prevent it or to stop it. It would all be over too quickly.

    THE ONLY THING KNOWN, ACTUALLY “KNOWN”, not speculated, about N Korea’s military is the 10’s of thousands of artillery cannons it has pointed at Seoul in S Korea, just 30-miles away. Realistic estimates suggest the fat freak in the North with the bad haircut can deliver 200,000 artillery rounds on Seoul within about 2-hours, killing millions of S Koreans. If the fat freak in the North with the bad haircut even thinks there is a buildup of military-might that is to be used against him, he may start shooting at Seoul at any time.

    No one … NO ONE! … knowns anything about N Korea’s nuclear capacities. The suggestion it has miniaturized a nuke for use as a warhead first came up in an intelligence report in 2013 and had been strongly disclaimed by nearly every intel agency since. It is now, suddenly, being recirculated as if it is a new development – think: propaganda campaign.

    NO ONE KNOWS if all of that military crap the fat freak in the North with the bad haircut puts on display in military parades is even real or functional. Some analysis of photos of the paraded missiles suggests, at least, some of the missiles are dummies, mock-ups made to impress his own people.

    The last 2 ICBM missile launches were impressive because the fat freak in the North with a bad haircut switched from liquid fuel to solid fuel rocket engines. NO ONE KNOWS if those things can even carry a payload, let alone a nuke warhead. What is known is the missile launch prior to the latest achieved an altitude ideal for an EMP (electro-magnetic pulse) attack. What is NOT KNOWN is if the missile can carry an EMP payload and still achieve the same altitude.

    The fat freak in the North with the bad haircut does not have “a” army. He has (1) a standing army, (2) an elite army, (3) a women’s army and (4) a youth army. Any land war with N Korea will not play well. That said, the 82nd Airborne has just started training for combat in conditions of Korean terra firma. Some years ago a couple of generals said the absolute worst possible conditions for any land war are in Korea. I do not see it happening without taking out those 10’s of thousands of artillery cannons, first.

    The only way to take out the fat freak in the North with the bad haircut without massive loss of friendly human life (S Korea) is to make a big part of N Korea unexpectedly, and instantaneously, evaporate.

    What worries me: the news stories about the fat freak in the North with a bad haircut saying he will launch 4 missiles toward Guam. Everything he says is published in N Korea and S Korean papers. Someone living in S Korea posted to board I read — there was nothing in any Korean paper N or S about launching 4 missiles toward Guam. That story appeared only in the western press. If he really said it and does not follow through, he looks like an idiot to the world, and he knows that. If he did follow through, N Korea will be vaporized, and he knows that, too. If he did not say it, and obviously there is not 4 missiles launched toward Guam, he still looks like an idiot to those in the west, and we have been set up with the beginning of a propaganda campaign. This could be the first false flag.

    B1 bombers, B2B bombers and a third class of bomber have recently been moved to military bases in Guam, Hawaii, and Okinawa. All of those bases store the glow-in-the-dark goodness necessary for vaporizing the fat freak in the North with a bad haircut.

    Other considerations: any pre-emptive attack on N Korea will create a humanitarian problem for China. There will be a massive fleeing of people out of N Korea and into China. China is not prepared for that. Any coordination of international aid would take some time to put in place, presuming China would allow it.

    Predictions: (1) China will impose sever sanctions, (2) the fat freak in the North will back down on targeting Guam.

  23. EMBARGO..??? A joke..!! 🙂 🙂

    Great for black market:

    North Korea’s Rocket Engines Came from Ukraine

    https://needtoknow.news/2017/08/ny-times-says-north-koreas-rocket-engines-came-ukraine/

    When the US State Department supported Ukraine domestic forces and nationalist elements to stage a successful and deadly coup against then pro-Russian president Viktor Yanukovych in 2014, the outcome was supposed to be a nation that is a undisputed US ally and persistent threat, distraction and non-NATO opponent to bordering Russia. Instead, it now appears that it has been Ukraine which was, as the NYT writes, the secret behind the success of North Korea’s allegedly nuclear-capable ballistic missile program.

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