John Lennon vs. the Deep State: One Man Against the ‘Monster’

By John W. Whitehead
October 7, 2019 

“You gotta remember, establishment, it’s just a name for evil. The monster doesn’t care whether it kills all the students or whether there’s a revolution. It’s not thinking logically, it’s out of control.”—John Lennon (1969)

 John Lennon, born 79 years ago on October 9, 1940, was a musical genius and pop cultural icon.

He was also a vocal peace protester and anti-war activist and a high-profile example of the lengths to which the Deep State will go to persecute those who dare to challenge its authority.

Long before Julian Assange, Edward Snowden and Chelsea Manning were being castigated for blowing the whistle on the government’s war crimes and the National Security Agency’s abuse of its surveillance powers, it was Lennon who was being singled out for daring to speak truth to power about the government’s warmongering, his phone calls monitored and data files illegally collected on his activities and associations.

For a while, at least, Lennon became enemy number one in the eyes of the U.S. government.

Years after Lennon’s assassination it would be revealed that the FBI had collected 281 pages of files on him, including song lyrics. J. Edgar Hoover, head of the FBI at the time, directed the agency to spy on the musician. There were also various written orders calling on government agents to frame Lennon for a drug bust. “The FBI’s files on Lennon … read like the writings of a paranoid goody-two-shoes,” observed reporter Jonathan Curiel.

As the New York Times notes, “Critics of today’s domestic surveillance object largely on privacy grounds. They have focused far less on how easily government surveillance can become an instrument for the people in power to try to hold on to power. ‘The U.S. vs. John Lennon’ … is the story not only of one man being harassed, but of a democracy being undermined.”

Indeed, all of the many complaints we have about government today—surveillance, militarism, corruption, harassment, SWAT team raids, political persecution, spying, overcriminalization, etc.—were present in Lennon’s day and formed the basis of his call for social justice, peace and a populist revolution.

For all of these reasons, the U.S. government was obsessed with Lennon, who had learned early on that rock music could serve a political end by proclaiming a radical message. More importantly, Lennon saw that his music could mobilize the public and help to bring about change. Lennon believed in the power of the people. Unfortunately, as Lennon recognized: “The trouble with government as it is, is that it doesn’t represent the people. It controls them.”

However, as Martin Lewis writing for Time notes: “John Lennon was not God. But he earned the love and admiration of his generation by creating a huge body of work that inspired and led. The appreciation for him deepened because he then instinctively decided to use his celebrity as a bully pulpit for causes greater than his own enrichment or self-aggrandizement.”

For instance, in December 1971 at a concert in Ann Arbor, Mich., Lennon took to the stage and in his usual confrontational style belted out “John Sinclair,” a song he had written about a man sentenced to 10 years in prison for possessing two marijuana cigarettes. Within days of Lennon’s call for action, the Michigan Supreme Court ordered Sinclair released.

What Lennon did not know at the time was that government officials had been keeping strict tabs on the ex-Beatle they referred to as “Mr. Lennon.” Incredibly, FBI agents were in the audience at the Ann Arbor concert, “taking notes on everything from the attendance (15,000) to the artistic merits of his new song.”

The U.S. government, steeped in paranoia, was spying on Lennon.

By March 1971, when his “Power to the People” single was released, it was clear where Lennon stood. Having moved to New York City that same year, Lennon was ready to participate in political activism against the U. S. government, the “monster” that was financing the war in Vietnam.

The release of Lennon’s Sometime in New York City album, which contained a radical anti-government message in virtually every song and depicted President Richard Nixon and Chinese Chairman Mao Tse-tung dancing together nude on the cover, only fanned the flames of the conflict to come.

The official U.S. war against Lennon began in earnest in 1972 after rumors surfaced that Lennon planned to embark on a U.S. concert tour that would combine rock music with antiwar organizing and voter registration. Nixon, fearing Lennon’s influence on about 11 million new voters (1972 was the first year that 18-year-olds could vote), had the ex-Beatle served with deportation orders “in an effort to silence him as a voice of the peace movement.”

Then again, the FBI has had a long history of persecuting, prosecuting and generally harassing activists, politicians, and cultural figures. Most notably among the latter are such celebrated names as folk singer Pete Seeger, painter Pablo Picasso, comic actor and filmmaker Charlie Chaplin, comedian Lenny Bruce and poet Allen Ginsberg.

Among those most closely watched by the FBI was Martin Luther King Jr., a man labeled by the FBI as “the most dangerous and effective Negro leader in the country.” With wiretaps and electronic bugs planted in his home and office, King was kept under constant surveillance by the FBI with the aim of “neutralizing” him. He even received letters written by FBI agents suggesting that he either commit suicide or the details of his private life would be revealed to the public. The FBI kept up its pursuit of King until he was felled by a hollow-point bullet to the head in 1968.

While Lennon was not—as far as we know—being blackmailed into suicide, he was the subject of a four-year campaign of surveillance and harassment by the U.S. government (spearheaded by FBI Director J. Edgar Hoover), an attempt by President Richard Nixon to have him “neutralized” and deported. As Adam Cohen of the New York Times points out,

“The F.B.I.’s surveillance of Lennon is a reminder of how easily domestic spying can become unmoored from any legitimate law enforcement purpose. What is more surprising, and ultimately more unsettling, is the degree to which the surveillance turns out to have been intertwined with electoral politics.”

As Lennon’s FBI file shows, memos and reports about the FBI’s surveillance of the anti-war activist had been flying back and forth between Hoover, the Nixon White House, various senators, the FBI and the U.S. Immigration Office.

Nixon’s pursuit of Lennon was relentless and in large part based on the misperception that Lennon and his comrades were planning to disrupt the 1972 Republican National Convention. The government’s paranoia, however, was misplaced.

Left-wing activists who were on government watch lists and who shared an interest in bringing down the Nixon Administration had been congregating at Lennon’s New York apartment. But when they revealed that they were planning to cause a riot, Lennon balked. As he recounted in a 1980 interview,

“We said, We ain’t buying this. We’re not going to draw children into a situation to create violence so you can overthrow what? And replace it with what? . . . It was all based on this illusion, that you can create violence and overthrow what is, and get communism or get some right-wing lunatic or a left-wing lunatic. They’re all lunatics.”

Despite the fact that Lennon was not part of the “lunatic” plot, the government persisted in its efforts to have him deported. Equally determined to resist, Lennon dug in and fought back. Every time he was ordered out of the country, his lawyers delayed the process by filing an appeal. Finally, in 1976, Lennon won the battle to stay in the country when he was granted a green card. As he said afterwards, “I have a love for this country…. This is where the action is. I think we’ll just go home, open a tea bag, and look at each other.”

Lennon’s time of repose didn’t last long, however. By 1980, he had re-emerged with a new album and plans to become politically active again.

The old radical was back and ready to cause trouble. In his final interview on Dec. 8, 1980, Lennon mused, “The whole map’s changed and we’re going into an unknown future, but we’re still all here, and while there’s life there’s hope.”

The Deep State has a way of dealing with troublemakers, unfortunately. On Dec. 8, 1980, Mark David Chapman was waiting in the shadows when Lennon returned to his New York apartment building. As Lennon stepped outside the car to greet the fans congregating outside, Chapman, in an eerie echo of the FBI’s moniker for Lennon, called out, “Mr. Lennon!”

Lennon turned and was met with a barrage of gunfire as Chapman—dropping into a two-handed combat stance—emptied his .38-caliber pistol and pumped four hollow-point bullets into his back and left arm. Lennon stumbled, staggered forward and, with blood pouring from his mouth and chest, collapsed to the ground.

John Lennon was pronounced dead on arrival at the hospital. He had finally been “neutralized.”

Yet where those who neutralized the likes of John Lennon, Martin Luther King Jr., John F. Kennedy, Malcolm X, Robert Kennedy and others go wrong is in believing that you can murder a movement with a bullet and a madman.

Thankfully, Lennon’s legacy lives on in his words, his music and his efforts to speak truth to power. As Yoko Ono shared in a 2014 letter to the parole board tasked with determining whether Chapman should be released:

“A man of humble origin, [John Lennon] brought light and hope to the whole world with his words and music. He tried to be a good power for the world, and he was. He gave encouragement, inspiration and dreams to people regardless of their race, creed and gender.”

Sadly, not much has changed for the better in the world since Lennon walked among us.

Peace remains out of reach. Activism and whistleblowers continue to be prosecuted for challenging the government’s authority. Militarism is on the rise, with local police dressed like the military, all the while the governmental war machine continues to wreak havoc on innocent lives across the globe. Just recently, for example, U.S. military forces carried out drone strikes in Afghanistan that killed 30 pine nut farmers.

For those of us who joined with John Lennon to imagine a world of peace, it’s getting harder to reconcile that dream with the reality of the American police state.

Meanwhile, as I point out in my book Battlefield America: The War on the American People, those who dare to speak up are labeled dissidents, troublemakers, terrorists, lunatics, or mentally ill and tagged for surveillance, censorship, involuntary detention or, worse, even shot and killed in their own homes by militarized police.

As Lennon shared in a 1968 interview:

“I think all our society is run by insane people for insane objectives… I think we’re being run by maniacs for maniacal means. If anybody can put on paper what our government and the American government and the Russian… Chinese… what they are actually trying to do, and what they think they’re doing, I’d be very pleased to know what they think they’re doing. I think they’re all insane. But I’m liable to be put away as insane for expressing that. That’s what’s insane about it.”
So what’s the answer?

Lennon had a multitude of suggestions.

“If everyone demanded peace instead of another television set, then there’d be peace.”

“War is over if you want it.”

“Produce your own dream…. It’s quite possible to do anything, but not to put it on the leaders…. You have to do it yourself. That’s what the great masters and mistresses have been saying ever since time began. They can point the way, leave signposts and little instructions in various books that are now called holy and worshipped for the cover of the book and not for what it says, but the instructions are all there for all to see, have always been and always will be. There’s nothing new under the sun. All the roads lead to Rome. And people cannot provide it for you. I can’t wake you up. You can wake you up. I can’t cure you. You can cure you.”

“Peace is not something you wish for; It’s something you make, Something you do, Something you are, And something you give away.”

“If you want peace, you won’t get it with violence.”

And my favorite advice of all: “Say you want a revolution / We better get on right away / Well you get on your feet / And out on the street / Singing power to the people.”



“I think they’re all insane. But I’m liable to be put away as insane for expressing that.  That’s what’s insane about it.” — John Lennon


VIDEO   :   3.14 mins

59 thoughts to “John Lennon vs. the Deep State: One Man Against the ‘Monster’”

  1. It’s very sad that even mr. Lennon didn’t mention the jews, the usual suspects, a mr. Roberts revisited style. It would have made a huge impact.
    But maybe even he wanted a ‘ tranquil’ life, a compromise being a ‘ savior/guru’’ and living a relative comfortable life, fame and money etc., by not mentioning the jews.

    1. Maybe he wasn’t aware of Jewish influence at that time. Remember it was still early days. Over 50 years ago.

    2. E –

      He did mention A jew quite often. Brian Samuel Epstein was an English music entrepreneur who discovered and managed the Beatles. He was often referred to as a “fifth” member of the group. 🙂

      Yoko Ono’s father was a wealthy Japanese banker. I have always thought he was behind John’s murder. To save face.

      1. Of course having great success is an indication of the jewish influence. Cherchez le juif, mr. Epstein.That’s why Lennon was vague and didn’t mention the jews. I don’t say Lennon was a hypocrite but maybe he was just that.
        Pat, I don’t understand you, ‘ To save face’.

      2. E –

        The ’round-eye’ Brit Lennon with his attitudes…. would have been a commercial embarrassment to a jap banker who makes money from lending for wars….. and public embarrassment with his lack of proper morals.

        He might have hired the killing out of shame Lennon brought him and his family.


    Occasionally some old rockers do stumble across the truth:

    “It’s in the hands of Mr. Money and Mr. Money happens to be the European families who own the Federal Reserve and have no patriotic interest in the United States of America. Their interest is in destroying the potential for freedom because we were getting strong with our factories. We were getting debt free. We were getting towards that when they pulled the rug out from beneath us. We were getting to be a strong nation but they control us by the issuance of our currency. The fact that they are all Jewish families is not coincidental and the fact that we are kicking the crap out of Palestinians in Afghanistan and in Iraq and they’re rattling the saber to go into Iran. It’s them in control by virtue of television to confuse people and put us in a state of disinformation and we base our opinions on B.S. Well, what does that say about our opinions?”

  3. They killed him because he knew what was really going on…….they love warmongers but Fear peacemakers like Lennon.

    1. If they feared John Lennon because he was against the Vietnam War they would have killed him while the Vietnam War was raging. He was killed in 1980 about 6 years after the Vietnam War was over. If they feared him because he was against the Vietnam War they would have killed him while the war was going on and they would have poisoned him and made it look like a drug overdose. They would not have assassinated him dramatically. They would have made it look like he overdosed and died [ so it wouldn’t be obvious he was killed because he was Anti-Vietnam War ]. But that’s not what happened. He was killed AFTER the Vietnam War was over.

      1. He was woke to the Rothchild’s etc and was going to try to wake the masses up so they killed him. .

    2. If they killed Lennon because he was Anti-War, why didn’t they kill Jane Fonda? She was also Anti-War PLUS she
      committed outright treason against the United States in her desire to virtue-signal to the world how full of “Peace Luhv and Understanding” she was. John Lennon was Anti-War. Jane Fonda was Anti-War. BUT John Lennon didn’t commit treason against the United States but Jane Fonda did, so they should have killed Jane Fonda. If they simply had to kill a famous Anti-War person, might as well kill a famous Anti-War person who commits outright treason against your country and not a famous Anti-War person who, while yes an annoying pain-in-the-arse, never actually committed treason.

  4. John Lennon was a drugged up filthy arrogant selfish piece of crap who pushed race mixing!

    His wife was a banker’s daughter. Bankers make money financing wars. Lennon made him look ridiculous. Lennon had to go!

    This is one of the things he said which was true: “Say you want a revolution / We better get on right away / Well you get on your feet / And out on the street / Singing power to the people.”

    SO, TODAY.. the African hordes “on their feet” stampeding through Europe are taking his advice which proves him to be correct on REVOLUTION… which he constantly preached through music!

    1. Pat –

      Unfortunately, “good” and “evil” cannot be clearly defined. They mainly are products of PERSPECTIVES. Rain is “good” if you’ve been suffering from drought. It is “evil” is you are already enduring flood. In and of itself, Lennon’s promotion of “peace” is very good if you are suffering incessant attack; it is bad if it must be breached to protect your country or cultural lifestyle. Philosophically, we always seem to be put in a “catch-22” situation.
      Whatever one’s perspective, John Lennon DID produce some touching, inspirational music. 🙂

      1. Gil –

        I never mentioned good or evil.

        To hell with his damned music!

        It was so “touching” and “inspirational” it pushed the ‘Manson family’ to torture and murder. It pushed Manson and other assholes into wanting a race war in America. It pushed drugs and a culture of drugs which are crippling young people in Virginia STILL TODAY!!

        Lennon was a race-mixing drugged-up piece of crap! 🤢

  5. @Pat. Helter Skelter was written by Paul McCartney. Not all of his stuff was “silly love songs”.

    1. M –

      I never wrote about any “silly love songs”.

      John Lennon was a piece of crap. His good buddy Epstein was a queer, who overdosed.

  6. “Mr.Lennon”s first (nonmusical) mistake was moving his bony ass to America. The 2nd mistake was living in New York City. And his third mistake, as Pat’s intimates, hooking up with Japanese bankers daughter. TJ could care less if Lennon was a druggy.
    Even though the Beatles had musical talent, other then some guitar lessons, had no real musical training. They could write some somewhat touching song lyrics to a pleasant melody, but it was the trained musical arrangers behind the scenes that gave life for the Beatles’ famous recordings.
    In later life after the Beatles split. Paul McCartney or the dead McCartney’s doppelganger, has produced some real musical snorers. His attempt at a large orchestra venture 1991 was quite frankly boring. Even working with a trained composer couldn’t save it. The music scores to some BBC TV productions are much more interesting.
    Lennon’s music, after the Beatles split, never did reach the level of the youthful lyrics and tunes of the Beatles. Lennon’s later recordings could be characterized, lyrics and tunes, as a one note samba.
    How in the hell could the Washington DC version of the deep state, during Lennon’s sojourn in New York, consider John Lennon a threat to the Empire?
    Most likely Lennon’s killer, Mark David Chapman, was a product of UK-ultra mind control.

    1. “I have a love for this country…. This is where the action is. I think we’ll just go home, open a tea bag, and look at each other.” If this is what Lennon really pretended to believe about his so boring home land the evil Kingdom than the deep state and the maniacs who run it must have been everywhere else in Lennon’s world but not in the so innocent British empire. COL, the kosher nobility, a German Queen, the peace loving MI6 & co and British colonial history surely must have been sooooo boring for Lennon that he just had to take a big bite at the US.

      1. @ Jo

        With all due respect, you have misunderstood John Lennon completely! He was not referring to his own country, England, when he said: “I have a love for this country…. This is where the action is.” He was referring to AMERICA!!!

        By the time he said that, he had made America his new home and had settled into a palatial apartment in Manhattan with Yoko Ono. Why do you think he abandoned England and made America his new home? Like so many other disillusioned Brits did, including Aldous Huxley, Christopher Isherwood, Alan Watts and Alfred Hitchcock. All these Brits knew that the “action” was now in America.That’s where the movies were made that changed the entire cultural outlook of the Western world. And that’s where the money was.

        When Lennon added: “I think we’ll just go home, open a tea bag, and look at each other,” he was being sarcastic. What he was saying was: “Go home to England? Me? What for? To juggle with tea bags and stare at my fellow Brits? You must be joking!”

        So I’m sorry, you misread Lennon completely. America was where most of his musical income came from, including his income from Hollywood movies like “Yellow Submarine”. And it was America and its cultural vibrancy he was praising. England was no more than a cultural backwater (or swamp) to him by now.

        1. Lennon haters may say what they want, but Lennon created some unforgettable music. The lyrics were pure genius. His mind had been opened by LSD and other psychotropic drugs and he was very much a product of the 1960s hippie “flower power” culture. Who can listen to “Eleanor Rigby” and not be moved by it? This is one of the greatest lyrics of the 20th century and encapsulates the spirit of the 1960s, a lost golden age that still evokes tears of nostalgia among those who were young at the time and lived through it all . . .

      2. @ SAKI, action in the world always originated from Great Britain after it became a kosher Great money changing Empire centuries ago and long before USA existed as a nation. I am referring to John Lennon as an born English man and not as an artist who chases $$$$. Some of his texts have shown enough enough enlightenment to make the lyrics stuck in ones mind. I am referring to nothing but the English tradition that always will “put Great Britain first” without any or very little criticism on wrong doings of the empire. Instead the British traditional finger ALWAYS points elsewhere. What one might have said and meant at a time should not be interpreted by idolisers or haters alike. IMO Monty Python brought on a lot more criticism to his mother land than John Lennon but I am always open to change my mind and learn something new. I have met and argued with more than enough English “patriots” all over the world which makes the “Russian statistics” in the link look very, very small.
        One imagine everybody – subject or not – and any nation around the world cleaning up their own patriotism “act” from illusion and foreign intervention first. One imagine the own back yard filled with truth and without force fed patriotic MSM education. One can only Imagine where any ones finger could point to then!

  7. John Lennon? Really – John Lennon? Are we still talking about John Lennon – Really? Never thought much about him one way or the other. Small world. Yes – and very, very bad. Ten minuets later and he was smokin’ in hell.

  8. I guess we can give him credit for this…
    “There is room at the top, they are telling you still
    But first you must learn how to smile as you kill,
    If you want to be like the folks on the hill”…
    My educated guess – the Beatles were Freemasons, promoted and managed by the same deep zion warmonger state denizens who gave you all the rest of the laurel Canyon crowd, including Jim Morrison…
    Big Big Bucks…
    Their Beatles original band name was The Quarrymen..
    That would be the Stone Quarry, where the Masons, the Big Insiders, who built the Cathedrals, and the Pyramids, have been hanging out for centuries…
    I like Led Zepplin for Masons too, since the Astronaught thing…
    I would bet the whole Sharon Tate Charles Manson thing, in the same neighborhood, was a production, like Miles Mathis says, especially since Sharon’s father was a CIA killer from Operation Gladio…
    John Lennon may have faked his death, Jim Morrison too…
    The proles have no idea what really goes on in the world…
    The original Paul was probably rubbed out for some reason, like James Dean, same kind of carwreck scenario…
    Michael Hastings, Karen Silkwood….. I guess Lee Bowers had a heart attack at the wheel…
    George (Dark Horse – 33 and 1/3) Harrison probably had to go too.. His lyrics were getting a little too interesting.. And what a unhappy looking SOB he is on the cover of his Anthology book on my shelf over here…
    The lyrics to CrackerBox Palace might nave gotten a little to close the the limit on what the Brethren are allowed to let on to the Profane….

  9. For those who may be unfamiliar, that Lennon tune hp refers to is about his addiction to heroin – the “monkey on his back”. Nothing to hide when you’re so obviously strung out on opioids like he was at the time

      1. HP
        Yoko the monkey sounds familiar. I’ve always been suspicious of her, thinking Lennon’s relationship with her somehow contributed to his murder. Pat could be guessing right with regards to her banker father, or maybe it’s Yoko herself, like she’s some kind of demon in sheep’s clothing. 😈

    1. B-Hawk –
      All drug addict symptoms from shooting heroin in street lingo…. in “Come Together”:

      “Here comes ole flattop, he comes, groovin up slowly”

      “He got ju-ju eyeball” (under eyelids)
      “He got toejam football” (between toes)
      “He got monkey-finger” (between fingers)


      “One thing I can tell you is he got to be free” (HA!! Be free & shoot up!)

      That was from memory. I was a big fan in the 60s… had all of their albums (even 5 Two Virgins albums when in Guam) before I saw the devastating results of their influence later. I sold all of them. Made $$.

  10. TJ
    “Even though the Beatles had musical talent, other then some guitar lessons, had no real musical training. They could write some somewhat touching song lyrics to a pleasant melody, but it was the trained musical arrangers behind the scenes that gave life for the Beatles’ famous recordings.”
    I would have to differ with you a little bit here Dood, or Doodette, whichever it may be…
    You are correct that the Beatles songs were relatively simple, mostly easy chords some mid level lead guitar work, basic drums, some piano… They did a lot of gimmicky stuff with the mixing, which was good but has nothing much to do with musical ability… But I doubt there’s any way they could have made all those live appearances without getting pretty handy with it – “I’VE GOT BLISTERS ON MY FINGERS”… Remember that?
    From what I hear, and I don’t doubt it too much, those in the business do know though that the bandmates themselves rarely play the music that goes onto the recordings they sell.. That is generally done by professional studio musicians nobody’s ever heard of… It is the real band jamming up there on stage though…
    Speaking of which, can you tell us about your handle – do you have Toes in your Jammies or Jammies in your Toes?
    “His mind had been opened by LSD and other psychotropic drugs and he was very much a product of the 1960s hippie “flower power” culture. Who can listen to “Eleanor Rigby” and not be moved by it?
    Im guessing you’re a female, so I’m calling you Darling so you’ll know I’m being nice…
    There is some truth to that idea with pot, but as one who lived through the great chemical warfare drug assault on the working class throughout the 60s and 70s I can tell you that crap about psychotropic drugs expanding the mind is a lot of CIA drug promotion garbage, coming a long way down from the original British eugenics officianados of the late 1800s, funded by the Rockefellers, through the Beatnicks, twisted into Aldous Huxley and his Doors of Perception, through the VA Hospital in Palo Alto Ca to the Haight Ashbury runaway hippie drug-fest and the Straight Theater actors from the Charlie Manson political put-on, ending up with The LA Doors, Arlo Guthrie and the Grateful Dead…
    Most of the Hippie drug casualties never saw any real LSD, they had their brains blow out by experimental BZ, MDA, Blue Cheer and other various kinds of ‘acid’… Once you have expanded your mind with some of that it an take years to get it shrunk back down to it normal size…
    It was all a big cultural manipulation, with huge drug profits in the offing… FWIW –
    It was not without Intel that Rock Concerts were invented for the purpose of promoting drug consumption among the masses, which eventually grossed more than the typical deliveries made during they usual “Combat Operations” in various “War Theaters” around the world…
    The CIA learned its chops in the drug business from the wonderful people at British Intel..
    Then came Dan Quayle and Eli Lilly with Prozac, which is just speed, generally guaranteed to make you feel better..
    Now you’ve got the creepo Sackler Brothers, who got started big in the drug business with their invention of Valium, basically and anti-uncomfortable drug, in case a person has to deal with the normal stresses of life…
    But the problem with Valium was that it wasn’t really addictive enough…
    They fixed that problem with Oxycontin…
    Who knows what kind of Prick John Lennon really was…

    1. @ barkingdeer

      This is a staggeringly disappointing comment. A long, rambling rant showing almost zero knowledge about LSD and psychotropic drugs. Saki knows what he or she is talking about. You clearly don’t. For a start, the psychotropic (or mind-expanding) drugs — like LSD, mescalin, peyote, psilocybin, magic mushrooms — are the drugs that interested Lennon as well as Aldous Huxley and form the subject matter of Huxley’s “The Doors of Perception”. So why, pray tell, do you drag in a whole bunch of other drugs that are TOTALLY UNRELATED to the psychoptropic drugs? Because you are basically stupid!

      The Sackler Brothers, valium, prozac and oxytocin which you sprinkle around like madman’s confetti and drag into the conversation have NOTHING WHATEVER TO DO with LSD and mescalin and the mind-expanding drugs taken by Lennon and Huxley! Prozac and valium are taken for depression and anxiety, and oxytocin is a dangerously addictive opioid or painkiller.

      A friend of mine who happened to read your comment dismissed you at once as “an ignorant fucking moron”. I wouldn’t go so far. But you can’t be that intelligent if you don’t now the difference between non-addictive, mind-expanding drugs inducing euphoria, on the one hand, and addictive antidepressants and painkillers on the other.

      1. @ Sardonicus

        I don’t know why you bother with the likes of Barkingdeer. The man — if BD IS a man and not a transgender freak — is someone of extremely limited intelligence. He make us for his ignorance by his sense of inflated self-importance.

        “I’m guessing you’re a female,” he chirps flirtatiously at Saki, “so I’m calling you Darling so you’ll know I’m being nice…”

        Big deal! His sexist condescension is not appealing. Such overfamiliarity, quite simply, is bad manners. The bad manners of a chauvinist creep. How dies BD know that “Saki” is female? He doesn’t. I always thought Saki was male. In which case, BD’s comment to Saki would strike Saki and most other people here as a rather crude homosexual chatup line.

        Even if Saki is a female, what makes this pompous asshole think that all females would welcome being addressed as “darling”?

        1. I have learned a lot from the astute comments of Barkingdeer. I also happen to think he is an exceptionally nice guy. If he called me “darling”, I wouldn’t mind at all. I’d be flattered! I certainly wouldn’t make a big fuss about it. 🙂

          However, I agree that this particular comment of his is a bit silly. He can do better than this.

    2. “They used us as an excuse to go mad, the world did,” George Harrison said in the Beatles’ 1995 Anthology documentary. “And then blamed it on us.”
      (George Harrison)

    1. Yes, I agree. Barkingdeer is a good person. And Sard and Alice are not being very nice. They are overreacting. Shame on them!

  11. Lets not be so fast on the draw as concerns LSD and other psychotropic drugs versus the opiates. The CIA did all sorts of experiments with LSD. TJ remembers reading of cases where CIA operatives gave LSD to unknowing individuals who went nuts and jumped out windows. There were cases where the LSD fed persons couldn’t get back to some normalcy for days and weeks. Look it up. Have any of you people seen a person strung out on Meth? TJ (TJ means the oh so soothing raspberry Jam between the toes. The jam helps cover up the smell so attractive to my dogs) TJ gets real sick and tired of those who are under the impression that psychotropic drugs leads to some imaginary burst of great creativity. When TJ was at University studying music just before and during the time of the original Beatles’ outbursts. Popular music was and still is very small potatoes compared to the great 20th century and earlier composers. Now if any Darkmooner wants to write about Bartok’s “Violin Concerto” I’m all ears. Or how about Paul Hindemith’s “Mathis der Maler”. Come on guys and gals lets raise the level of discourse when writings about music.

  12. SARDO
    I can rant all I want.. You’re not the boss of this site.. If you don’t like it, it’s probably because you’re a chickenshit little smarm, who’s never studied any of this subject and knows next to nothing about it…
    Like I said, I lived through it… Not everybody did… ‘Acid’ caused lots of suicides… It turned a lot of people into drunks, like jim Morrison?
    And if you say ‘psychotropic drugs’ expand your mind – you talk like a God Damn Fool…
    You missed my point, which was, that in reality the whole psychotropic drug mind expansion thing, for whatever it was really worth, if anything, was not what happened to the typical teenage runaway hippie drug casualty, trying to become John Lennon by taking drugs, who wound up freaked out in jail hell, after being poisoned by whatever weird shit the outlaw bikers brought into the Haight..
    That reminds me – I saw a cop one time on Market Street in 1968.. The cop had a freaked out Hippie by the hair with both hands, and he was jerking on it, while he dragged him out of the street.. He had just caused an auto mishap…The Hippie guy was extremely freaked out, moaning Oh Nooooo Oh Noooo…
    Don’t you get it yet man – the whole ‘mind expanding drugs’ crap was a scam, run on kids…
    So tell me Mr. Expert – how many “psychotropic” drugs have you taken?
    Because i saw a lot of drug taking in the military during the Vietnam Era, and I saw the problems…
    Mescaline doesn’t expand your mind.. It’s just gets you stoned for a long time, if it doesn’t give you a paranoid nervous breakdown, where you’re hiding somewhere laughing and crying at the same time for a few hours…
    And Mescaline is mild compared to Blue Cheer…
    Do you have any idea what that shit is?
    FYI it’s a super-heavy dose of some kind of micro super-speed nobody even knows about, laced with strychnine or arsenic to make you hallucinate.. I guess that’s when you really know your mind is expanding – when you’re seeing things that aren’t there…
    Coming down from it might literally drive you up the wall…
    Obviously you weren’t there and didn’t see the tragic side of the ‘mind expansion’ horse shit..
    Tell me something else asshole, how would you have felt if your 16 year old son or daughter ran away to San Francisco in 1967 to take Mind Expanding Drugs?
    What would you have said – yes my stupid little idiot, go out there and take some weird drugs so that you can expand your mind.. I think not, which means you’re so full of shit your eyes are brown…
    And you call me stupid?
    I know a guy who took some Ayahuasca, you know – the “Television of the Forest”…
    That crap might be OK for Amazonian Medicine Men but it turned this dude into an idiot for about a year…
    He came to work, but he was not real sure what was happening…
    Why don’t you take some Ayahuasca yourself man, see what happens..
    Expand your mind, for free.. All you have to do is take a little pill… Maybe you’ll be the next Jerry Garcia..
    You must take it all the time, right, because why not expand your mind as much as possible…
    Don’t worry Darling, you’ll get some attention someday too…
    Thank You MADAME… I’m glad to have you for a friend and I hope you have a very nice day…

    1. @ barkingdeer

      Pardon me if I ape your dated 1960s street talk…..

      Hey man, sorry to see you lose your cool! Chill out and get a girlfriend! Go out and meet some normal people instead of sitting in some seedy basement hunched over your computer and sorting out the world for us lesser mortals!

      So you’re omniscient because you went to Vietnam, right? Killing Asians at the other end of the world has turned you suddenly into a world-class genius? Yeah, right. Get back in box, jackass!

      I deliberately descend to your level of cheap discourse. Enough of that.

      Yes, I know all about the CIA’s experiments with LSD and mescalin. I’m aware of the fact, brought to our attention here by supergenius Pat, that Charles Manson and his grisly gang were high on LSD when they murdered Sharon Tate. So what? If you overdose on ANY drug, bad things happen.

      LSD, if pure and taken under controlled conditions by normal people, will NOT turn turn them all into serial killers or get them jumping out of windows! It does that only if the person taking the drug is a nutcase to start with, a psychopath like Manson. LSD wouldn’t turn Mother Teresa into a serial killer. LSD wouldn’t make Mother Teresa jump out of a high window! It would just give her a beautiful high, a mystical experience.

      Did peyote turn Carlos Castanedas into a serial killer? No, it didn’t!

      Did mescalin turn Aldous Huxley into Charles Manson or the Boston Strangler? No, it didn’t! Answer that, Cool Dude! ….. I’m sorry, I’m not impressed by your superior attitude at all. You come across to me as just another smartypants American who knows zero about anything but tries to ram your opinions down other people’s throats here by resorting to bad language and out-of-control aggression. You deserve a good thrashing for trying to bully the women on this site and get them to jerk you off by calling them “darling”. It won’t work, Barkingdeer. You’ll have to use your own hand. 🙂

      Good luck to you!

      Ever read “The Doors of Perception” by Aldous Huxley? It’s a hymn to mescalin. Mescalin expanded Huxley’s mind. It did not turn him into a serial killer. Millions of people, myself included, have taken occasional LSD trips. We didn’t abuse the drug. We didn’t overdose. We didn’t take it every day. We took it in strictest moderation, maybe once or twice a year, and we made sure it was pure. I myself took LSD many years ago. It was non-addictive and beneficial to me. Therapeutic. I have never been tempted to return to it.

      Why you need to conflate LSD with totally unrelated drugs like prozac, oxytocin and heroin is a mystery to me. Why did you mention the evil Sackler Brothers in the context of LSD? It’s because there’s something wrong with your brain, Barkingdeer. You confuse like with unlike, comparing apples to aubergines. You flip all over the shop like you were on medication yourself right now. Prescription medication that is fogging up your brain.

      There’s no reason why anyone on this site should pay attention to a conspiracy theory nutter like you. You are not fit to lecture Aldous Huxley on the evils of mescalin and LSD! It’s because, I regret to say it, you come across as a fool with zero credibility.

      1. I didn’t mind Barkingdeer calling me “darling”, though if it helps him to achieve an orgasm that’s okay with me! 🙂 However, the least he can do is to check in advance that the person he is flirting with belongs to the opposite sex. I refuse to disclose here whether I am male or female. The name is neutral and could apply to either sex.

        1. Seriously though, the case of Aldous Huxley and his extensive experience of mescalin (related to LSD) deserves our careful consideration. I am anxious to persuade intelligent people on this site that LSD is, on the whole, a good drug rather than a bad one.

          There are strictest guidelines though: (1) The drug must be certified as pure and taken under controlled conditions, as it was in Huxley’s case. (2) The dose must be correct, as any overdose will have unpredictable consequences, like making the user think he can fly and jump off a tall building. (3) The drug should not be taken regularly, day after day over several years, like cannabis. It should be taken only a few times in your life, sporadically, and with long intervals between each trip.

          If every criminal were told at the beginning of his sentence: “Look, we can give you a course of LSD. Six trips for the next six weeks. Under controlled conditions. This is voluntary. You can opt for it. Or you can refuse. We believe that this could help to rehabilitate you and give you an entirely new outlook on life.”

          I think Huxley would approve of that entirely. The chances are that a huge percentage of those criminals would never offend again.

          Even normal people suffering from depression and existential angst would benefit from the therapeutic use of LSD. It would be the most effective non-addictive prescription drug ever. Unlike other prescription drugs, however, LSD must be stopped after a few doses and not become a regular feature of one’s life like cannabis. That would be an abuse of its therapeutic value.


            I offer these quotes from Huxley’s controversial bestseller “THE DOORS OF PERCEPTION”.

            On taking mescalin for the first time:

            “I was seeing what Adam had seen on the morning of his creation — the miracle, moment by moment, of naked existence. (Pages 160-61)

            Huxley in praise of mescalin, and how it confers the gift of empathy:

            “To see ourselves as others see us is a most salutary gift. Hardly less important is the capacity to see others as they see themselves.” (Page 159)

            Huxley argues that mescalin allows you to SEE THE WORLD AS IT IS, not as it SEEMS to our blunted and blurred sense perceptions:

            “How significant is the enormous heightening, under mescalin, of the perception of color! … Man’s highly developed color sense is a biological luxury—inestimably precious to him as an intellectual and spiritual being, but unnecessary to his survival as an animal. … Mescalin raises all colors to a higher power and makes the percipient aware of innumerable fine shades of difference, to which, at ordinary times, he is completely blind. (Describing his experiment with mescaline, pp. 26-27)

            Finally, know that Huxley asked his wife Laura to prepare a dose of LSD for him on his deathbed, so that his last moments were spent in spiritual communion with the divine essence. Here is Laura Huxley’s touching account of this deathbed scene in her own words from her 1971 memoir “This Timeslss Moment”, as quoted by Jay Stevens in “”Storming Heaven: LSD and the American Dream (1987):

            On the morning of November 22nd, a Friday, it became clear the gap between living and dying was closing. Realizing that Aldous might not survive the day, Laura [Huxley’s wife] sent a telegram to his son, Matthew, urging him to come at once. At ten in the morning, an almost inaudible Aldous asked for paper and scribbled “If I go” and then some directions about his will. It was his first admission that he might die … Around noon he asked for a pad of paper and scribbled

            LSD — try it


            In a letter circulated to Aldous’s friends, Laura Huxley described what followed: “You know very well the uneasiness in the medical mind about this drug. But no “authority”, not even an army of authorities, could have stopped me then. I went into Aldous’s room with the vial of LSD and prepared a syringe. The doctor asked me if I wanted him to give the shot- maybe because he saw that my hands were trembling. His asking me that made me conscious of my hands, and I said, “No, I must do this.”

            An hour later she gave Huxley a second 100mm. Then she began to talk, bending close to his ear, whispering, “Light and free you let go, darling; forward and up. You are going forward and up; you are going toward the light. Willingly and consciously you are going, willingly and consciously, and you are doing this beautifully — you are going toward the light — you are going toward a greater love … You are going toward Maria’s [Huxley’s first wife, who had died many years earlier] love with my love. You are going toward a greater love than you have ever known. You are going toward the best, the greatest love, and it is easy, it is so easy, and you are doing it so beautifully.”

            All struggle ceased. The breathing became slower and slower and slower until, “like a piece of music just finishing so gently in sempre piu piano, dolcamente, at twenty past five in the afternoon, Aldous Huxley died.

            (Laura Huxley in This Timeless Moment (1971), as quoted by Jay Stevens in “Storming Heaven: LSD and the American Dream” (1987)

            I rest my case.

      2. You wrote: “Did peyote turn Carlos Castanedas into a serial killer? No, it didn’t!”

        It wasn’t the payote that did it, but he was a serial killer wasn’t he? Not proven, but all those women disappearing from his death sex cult and turning up later as skeletons, whether killed directly or induced to commit suicide by suggestion techniques. And a fraud. To think how many admired him when his first books came out.

  13. Saki et al
    Ingesting certain psychotropic substances under careful guidance can have what I consider to be invaluable benefits. Over 40 years ago I had a solitary mushroom experience which took me all these many years later to understand and put in the form of written words, much of whose content I’ve shared on this website , in conjunction with speaking with many Indian shamans over the same time frame.

    I also understand how it is that many readers find my stuff confusing. Why wouldn’t they when I do myself! It ain’t easy sorting through all the bullshit we’ve been inundated with our whole lives, nor should we EXPECT it to be. Being thought-provoking here is all I care about, for whatever it’s worth 😀

  14. What you are on this site SARDO is a SNIPER… SARDO the SNIPER..
    As far as I know this is a FREE THOUGHT HALL, where people can express themselves as they see fit as long as they stay close to the topic… That’s the idea here… It’s what makes it interesting…
    I’m not saying you’re all bad, but what you do is lay in wait until you see a target, somebody says something you don’t like, like in this case any alternative views of your sacred John Lennon or your “Miracle Drug” LSD, they you let him have it, because you think you’re the Paragraph Police…
    Then here come the creepy little insinuations about the person’s sex life…
    And you tell me to get a life?
    Not everybody believes the Manson Family episode was all real, I sure don’t, but I know guy who knew a guy who said he was in jail with Manson once a long time ago, and Manson told him his tactic was to “find these stupid Hippie kids and get them all fked up on drugs, then they will do whatever you tell them”…
    “I didn’t mind Barkingdeer calling me “darling”, though if it helps him to achieve an orgasm that’s okay with me! 🙂 However, the least he can do is to check in advance that the person he is flirting with belongs to the opposite sex. I refuse to disclose here whether I am male or female. The name is neutral and could apply to either sex.
    Most females won’t be offended being addressed in terms of endearment, only the rabid feminists…
    But I picked up on the gender neutrality of your Handle, when you first came here, which is why I phrased the following…
    What I said was – “I’m GUESSING you’re a female, so I’m calling you Darling so you’ll know I’m being nice”…
    If people are looking to release some animosity, and we see lots of that here, they will interpret meanings to excuse it, and I didn’t want to offend you, so I was trying to be nice, while pointing out how badly mistaken a lot of people have been on the whole ‘psychedelics’ thing..
    You’re free to take all the ‘mind expanding ‘ drugs you want… I wouldn’t advise it though… And I wouldn’t want to see you get hurt…
    As far as Mescaline goes – I think when you get to the point that you’re seeing the notes of a song your listening to, as people have told me – it means you’re circuits are crossed… And you might want to be careful with that…
    I mean really – DRUGS ARE NOT GOD and John Lennon was not the Pharmaceutical Jesus…
    Do you really think you can achieve enlightenment by taking a pill, or is it more likely everything will only seem more wowee, when you’ve made yourself more stupid with ‘Mild Altering Chemicals’?
    Good Luck to you too…

    1. There is no need for such animosity, unless the guy is a bad intended troll. I believe that’s not the case with Barkingdeer. He do talk some weird things often, but that happens when you live in a brainstorming (a storm of ideas) state of mind. The brainstorming is useful to bring out of the box ideas. Barkingdeer is an expert, he knows all the conspiracy theories ever launched, true of false.

      Of course he is angry with the junkie “kulture” of the 60s and the Vietnam War, the American people was effectively demoralized. I have the feeling that the main purpose of the war was to demoralize the American people; the moral was very low! Henry Kissinger made everything possible in his power to lose the war.

      “Mind expanding drug” is like dynamite, it’s useful but also dangerous. Weak minded people shouldn’t touch it, ever. Are you ready to face your worst fears, like the fear of death for example? Are you ready to be confronted with images of blood and butchered bodies, human or animal? Because if a bad trip hits you, these are the things your mind will produce. It’s very inhuman to gives huge doses of LSD to unaware subjects, like the CIA did in the so called MK-ULTRA mind control program; the subject is controlled because he is completely stoned.

      I don’t know why Huxley mentioned 100mm intramuscular injection, that’s bizarre! LSD can be absorbed thru the mouth, no need for shots. LSD is interesting but it does give you depression and a “hangover” the next day. Where one can find 100% pharmaceutical grade LSD is beyond me. I did Ayahuasca three times, very spiritual and frightening too, completely incompatible with parties, the best way to trip is with your eyes closed; a life changing experience. As I said in a previous thread, even alcohol is out of my list now.

      1. I must be getting old because I don’t like parties anymore, I really don’t. Especially big parties full of drunken people talking crap and a noisy “music”.

      2. @NOTHING BUT THE TRUTH, DMT is said to be produced naturally by the human body at the moment of “death” and without the need of any additional “foreign” substances or supplements. DMT at the same time can be found in many – if not all living “things” and in great variations of strength. DMT exists in the bark of trees, in every grass leave and even in the toxic substance produced by the glands of some – if not all toads.
        I have never taken Ayahuasca or any other hallucinogenic substance or drug but through personal spiritual experiences believe that DMT created in ones own body and encouraged through certain physical and emotional processes and even a strict vegan diet a chain reaction will take place in body and mind with effects that will trigger an “open spiritual connection with all elements that encompass the physical and spiritual body but are denied existence through the “human laws of science and the needy human condition itself”. Love and “innocence” seem to be the greatest trigger and foundation for these “DMT body experiences” and are also important for the further creation of DMT in ones own human body itself. Though preparation and strict guidelines for the “cleansing” of the physical and spiritual body are not only a necessity but a very “time consuming” affair (depending on the individual) which will affect the impatient human being part to seek a shorter and more efficient way through supplements.
        While I am not sure about the length of a spiritual experience when taken as an external drug or supplement I am certain that “BYO” DMT into action is timeless and only interrupted by the needs of the body and its selfish and separated mind.
        Apologies for my lack in word smithery and to not articulate myself properly in English.

        1. JO —

          You write very well! And clearly. That’s all that matters. What is your first language?

      3. @ Jo

        “I don’t know why Huxley mentioned 100mm intramuscular injection, that’s bizarre! LSD can be absorbed thru the mouth, no need for shots. LSD is interesting but it does give you depression and a “hangover” the next day. Where one can find 100% pharmaceutical grade LSD is beyond me.”

        Remember that the LSD Huxley took was a pure grade sample taken over 60 years ago. Things have changed since then. Huxley had access only to the finest laboratory LSD owing to his high connections. This was Calfornia in the 1960s.

        I myself took LSD in pill form, about six times, in the 1970s. Of course it didn’t produce “enlightenment”, which no drug can do. But it definitely “expanded” my mind in the sense that my character and entire outlook on life changed. It shook me out of my depression and filled me with hope and the conviction that life had a purpose and a meaning. It certainly did not give me a hangover the next day.

        It will only do that and give you an extremely bad trip if you abuse it and drink alcohol with it. Or if you are mentally unstable to start with, in which case you shouldn’t take it. You should be in a spiritual state of mind when you take it, preferably indoors with restful music playing. Or in a field and in beautiful natural surroundings. If you take it in a noisy public place, like in a disco or in a crowded subway train, you are asking for trouble.

        Bizarre hallucinations and illusions can occur, but this only happens if you overdose. The same applies to ALL drugs. Overdosing is fatal and can lead to suicide or death. If you swallow six pills when you told to take no more one, what can you expect?

      4. @ Saki, I never had anything to do with LSD though I had a friend back then who took it as often as it was available mixed with alcohol and other mind altering drugs. When he turned 28 he had very severe and terminal cancer and several “lifesaving” surgeries where even all the doctors and specialists consulted thought he never will make it through. During the last of these surgeries he stayed in coma for about 4 month and had a “near death” experience. When he returned home he started to catch flies and other insects that had “invaded” his flat and he carried them lovingly outside to set them free. Before his NDE he was known as a very violent and brutal man which became history. The last I had heard about him was that he became a father in his 40ties with no signs of any cancer history in his cells.
        @ MB – German, which would not be any better than what I come up with in English.

      5. Thanks for the replies, Jo and Saki! 🙂

        I think we should divide the mind altering drugs in two categories: natural drugs x artificial drugs. I would recommend avoiding artificial drugs, anything chemically processed such as: cocaine, heroin, ecstasy, methamphetamine, LSD, etc.

        Using only natural plants, herbs, cactus and fungus is more than sufficient to have “mind expanding” experiences. Some of these produce bad trip and should be avoided too. Call me a naturalist if you will, or “organic”. Jo, in this context, it’s interesting that you mentioned DMT, a natural hallucinogenic produced by the body.

        The Ayahuasca just catalyze the production/release of this substance, and what a powerful substance, the DMT. The deepest hallucinations take place with our eyes shut, we don’t see anything with our eyes, we “see” with our brain. The eyes are just sensors that capture the light, when the light hits the retina, electrical impulses are produced and sent to the brain. It’s said that the process of meditation can produce a similar effect as drinking the Ayahuasca. I never tried meditation. Among thousands of plants in the jungle, the Ayahuasca is produced when just two of them are combined. How the Indigenous people (Indians) got this know-how is beyond me.

        As a conclusion, I’ll give a sound guess: all those enlightened individuals, including Jesus, could talk to God using meditation, they could control the flow of DMT in their human-animal bodies! 🙂

  15. FWIW – There are cave paintings of the ZigZag Snake and also the ZigZag Snake Mound in Ohio, which is said to be a representation of DNA in the protein production process… Nobody made the connection until photographs were take of the DNA.. They’re the same pattern as the ZigZag Snake cave paintings… Speculation is the Shamans were able to perceive the DNA pattern, when they tripped out.. And there’s a possible connection to the ZigZag patterns in Native Art… No Doubt the Ayahuasca and other mind bending chemicals can put humans on a different level of perception, if you want to screw around like that with your head…
    But in the 60s and 70s “acid” was just a generic term for whatever, probably still is…
    From what I gather, LSD was developed by the CIA in its search for the perfect combat pill, looking for an improvement on amphetamine – marching powder… What was the guy’s name who jumped out the window of the Sandoz lab in Switzerland,? The Grateful Dead sound guy was Owsley, where you got Owsley Purple…
    I had an Easy Rider jacket like that at one time…
    like 99% of the rest of the stuff that hit the streets, Owsley Purple wasn’t LSD, it was jut acid, who knows what it was made of… There were lots of varieties… The CIA certainly experimented on people in that process, lots of military people… hey worked with Dr. Cameron in Montreal, he shot some of his patients up with it without telling them… Can you imagine that? Can’t say for sure, but I witnessed two highly intellectual looking university types handing something whatever out to drunk sailors in bar in Yokuska Japan in 1972… it was no joke…

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