How COVID-19 Will Test the West

by Andrew Joyce, Ph.D.
March 21, 2020
The Occidental Observer

“If trouble comes when you least expect it,
then maybe the thing to do is to always expect it.”
      Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Writing anything about COVID-19 at this moment is a daunting task since the situation is evolving so rapidly, and in so many different locations. Information contained in this piece could be thoroughly outpaced by transformative events by the time it reaches publication, or even by the time I finish up and click “save.” There is also a glut of information online right now, some of it reliable and fascinating, and some of it misleading and counterproductive. Everywhere there is a mixture of growing apprehension, clashing opinion, and outright confusion.

If the Johns Hopkins Coronavirus Resource Center’s interactive map is accurate, there are currently 284,566 cases of COVID-19 worldwide, a figure that is growing. The “true” number of infections, that includes asymptomatic carriers, will be much higher. Beginning on February 24th, an accelerating number of new transmissions emerged outside China, primarily in Italy which currently has over 47,021 cases. At time of writing, France and Germany are also experiencing rapid increases in affected persons, together totaling over 33,000 cases, and Spain is on the brink of a national lockdown with over 25,374. Almost every European country has now been affected, and COVID-19 is now spreading in the United States, Canada, South Africa, New Zealand, and Australia. How will it test the West?

Relations with China

Early speculation on COVID-19, especially in dissident circles, orbited conspiracy theories that the virus was engineered, and that it was either deployed by the United States or was an accidental leak from Wuhan’s Institute of Virology. In recent days, the former theory has been eagerly taken up by the Chinese themselves, with the added detail that COVID-19 may have been unleashed by visiting American soldiers during the Military World Games, which were staged in Wuhan in October 19-27, 2019. According to epidemiologist Michael Osterholm, in the course of a very interesting interview with Joe Rogan, it’s possible to date the origins of human COVID-19 through a process much like carbon dating, and scientists now have data suggesting COVID-19 became active in humans for the first time in mid-November 2019. Ron Unz has asked:

How would Americans react if 300 PRC officers had visited Chicago, and immediately afterwards, a deadly new plague broke out in that city, with a major risk of spreading throughout the country? Isn’t it also rather suspicious that Iran has been hit so hard? So the two countries in the world most subject to current American hostility just tend to be especially “unlucky.” It hit China just before Lunar New Year, the absolutely worst possible time, and the epicenter was Wuhan, a key transport hub. It really seems an *astonishing* coincidence that 300 American military servicemen had been visiting Wuhan just prior to the outbreak, at a peak of international tension.

Other than timing of course, there seems to be little or no evidence that this was a bioweapon attack. Most obviously, one would assume that any attempted bioweapon attack by the United States on China would be much more covert than what has been suggested (a deliberate release by a very public group of soldiers). Also, while we know that SARS-like viruses based on bat coronavirus can be developed in the lab, the genome of COVID-19 has also been examined countless times with the result that there are now over 300 papers on MedRXiv concerning the structure, nature, and origins of the virus. None of these papers have highlighted anything suggesting an artificial origin of any aspect of COVID-19.

Conspiracy theories on the origins of COVID-19 are of course a very convenient and useful tool for the Chinese government, because they deflect attention from the fact the outbreak can easily be attributed to bad government, and to Communism itself. I find the idea that the virus originated in a Wuhan “wild food” market to be utterly compelling (see this documentary by 60 Minutes Australia, and this short piece by Vox), and this has direct consequences for perceptions of Chinese Communism. The consumption of “exotic” foods is itself a legacy of the Great Chinese Famine 1959–1961, after which the government permitted private farming but failed to prevent the monopoly by big companies of the rearing of conventional livestock. The peasantry, priced out of the market, resorted in large numbers to the farming of wild animals, especially, in the initial stages, the farming of turtles. Since this curbed starvation to some extent, the government backed these initiatives, and then in 1988 made the encouragement of domestication and breeding of wildlife an explicit aspect of law. Wildlife farming became an industry overnight. Bears, snakes, rodents, lizards, and bats began to be mass-produced for human consumption, and sold in mass markets in many of the country’s largest cities. In these markets, multiple species, alive and dead, are stacked in cages on top of one another, with the animals soaked in cocktails of urine and excrement—each cage a petri dish for the development new diseases, especially respiratory diseases, with the potential to jump to humans from myriad mammals. Together with its failure to take decisive preventative action in January 2020, and absent conspiracy theory speculation, the origin tale of COVID-19 is ultimately an indictment of Chinese politics and culture.

How that indictment will impact relations between the West and China remains to be seen. The Carnegie Endowment for International Peace have speculated that while mutual suspicion between the Chinese and the United States will remain high, the coronavirus outbreak will have no meaningful impact on trade between the two countries, and may in fact help de-escalate some prior economic tensions and involve the suspension of tariffs. In the longer term, however, COVID-19 has accelerated discussion about the need to become more independent from China in the production of goods. Several multinational corporations with supply chains based in China, having already considered diversifying their supply chains because of the U.S.-China trade war, are now likely to further their plans. Apple, for example, intends to move some manufacturing of its products (including AirPods and Apple Watches) to Taiwan due to the coronavirus. In Washington, members of Congress have used the outbreak to call for scaling back U.S. reliance on China, especially for prescription drugs, medical supplies, and other critical resources. Since Europe (Germany in particular) is the world’s largest manufacturer of drugs and medicines, we are likely to see a gradual decoupling of the United States from Chinese production, and a greater integration of European-American trade. Brexit Britain, until recently seen by the Chinese as having great potential for a lucrative trade and investment deal, may now present more of a cold house than previously thought. The EU, already resistant to increased Chinese economic influence, is also likely to dig its heels even deeper in the face of Chinese approaches. Some of the lasting challenges of COVID-19 will be how the West can distance itself from economic dependence on Chinese manufacturing, what impact this will have in both the shorter and longer term, and how the Chinese will respond.

Migrant Pressures

The first European outbreaks of COVID-19 fatefully coincided with an aggressive two-week operation by Turkey on its border with Greece, involving the movement of thousands of Syrian and African migrants. Beginning in late February, the Turkish government announced it would no longer stop migrants trying to reach Europe, and then drove thousands to the Greek border, live-streaming the process to encourage more to follow. The move was widely understood as an attempt to force European support for Turkey’s military campaign in northern Syria, and also as an attempt to extort more money from the EU. Although the effort now appears to have concluded with Turkey backtracking in the face of Greek resilience, Europe continues to have this metaphorical human “pistol” pressed to the side of its head.

COVID-19 is going to aggravate the broader migrant problem. Already the clamor is growing that migrant camps on Europe’s borders should be evacuated on health grounds, with the migrants permitted to enter Europe. Doctors Without Borders (MSF) have argued that unhygienic and cramped living conditions mean COVID-19 can spread very fast, and that social distancing and hand washing are more difficult. While Europe bans mass gatherings, it’s been said that people in these camps have nowhere to go. Even within European countries, the outbreak has been associated with calls for amnesties and the opening of migrant detention centers. In the UK, lawyers and campaigners have called for hundreds immigration centers detainees to be released “because of fears they will contract coronavirus while locked up.”

The problem with such calls is that they all appear to present COVID-19 as a deadly plague slaughtering all in its path, rather than as something that afflicts the most seriously ill among the old and infirm. As is well known, the average age of Europe’s would-be migrants, particularly those from Syria, is somewhere around the late 20s. Given the known progression of COVID-19 in people in this age category, calls to permit mass influxes of masses of migrants purely because of the outbreak is tantamount to calling for open borders because potential immigrants might otherwise catch the common cold. Such calls are likely to ride the crest of a media-induced wave of panic, however, and the resolve of the West to resist further migrant flows will indeed be tested by twisted forms of moral blackmail in the weeks and months to come.

Life and Death under Liberalism

As stated in my review of Don DeLillo’s White Noise (1985), we live in a decaying society  that is in terror of death, and pathologically so. This pathology is rooted in mistaken beliefs that our civilization is dying from, or could imminently die from, disease epidemics, climate catastrophes etc., in the midst of willful and ignorant abdication of a future (via self-hate and industrialized abortion) in favor of mass immigration, consumerism, and instant gratification. Just as one has to confront death in order to truly live (or to become “authentic” in Heidegger’s philosophy), our society is in constant flight from death and thus inevitably collapses into inauthentic decay. COVID-19, while not as lethal as media coverage would suggest, is a reminder of our mortality and human fragility and will necessarily have a jarring effect on a Western liberalism that has become increasingly distant from the confrontation with death.

Life under liberal finance capitalism is largely one of illusion, in which the prospect of real death is pushed far into the distance, both psychologically and culturally. Postmodern Western liberal culture is largely one of perpetual adolescence, in which the primary virtues are acting according to one’s individual will, identifying oneself in a hyper-individualistic manner, and expressing these identities via conspicuous consumption and behavior. We do not “live towards” Death, with a sense of purpose and a feeling that we are part of a much grander civilizational trajectory. We do not understand that Death has shaped our historical path, and that it hangs over us in ways that should direct our actions in the present.

COVID-19, regardless of current confusion over its true mortality rate, is a corrective to illusions that “progressive” Man has overcome Nature and can shape the world according to the human image, and without consequences. Certainly throughout my own lifetime, I’ve grown accustomed to assertions that life expectancy will continue to increase, and that there will be an endless supply of innovations and social projects that will make the mechanics of life easier and more productive. One increasingly expects that one will live a long life, mostly in very good health. Such a sense of security can breed all kinds of arrogance and fantasies, including the recent perverse luxury of the delusion that one can simply decide to be this or that gender. This new virus, however, presents the possibility, both in itself and its inevitable heirs, that Death is much closer than we ever thought, and that for all our technological advancement and self-congratulation, Nature need only tweak one molecule, so small our naked eyes could never perceive it, and the grave opens before us. The Age of Fantasy is confronted with the ultimate reality.

How the West responds to this realization will be a further cultural challenge. We have grown equally accustomed to the idea that we have “advanced” morally as a society, and that we have overcome some of the more “brutish” aspects of human existence that we perceive in the past. But in a world of apparently increasing plenty, such notions can be hard to test. It’s always easy for a man with a full stomach to condemn the actions of the starving. The conceit of the full-bellied West that it has overcome and surpassed itself and its past will now be tested. I, of course, arise from a political and philosophical tradition that insists there is no shame in the past. I see little or no place for morality in the struggle for survival. And I also see the cracks already forming in the Western conceit. This society that is against “hate” and prides itself on “coming together” is already struggling to stop people rioting over toilet paper and bottled water. If civil order breaks down, will the proud feminists be seeking their own resources, or hoping for a strong man to protect them? If the death toll does rise dramatically, and if curfews and lockdowns are imposed and intensified, I ask: How well will your beloved multicultural societies respond? If resources become scarce and tensions rise, who will you trust? These tests are coming.

Economic and Political Fallout

Just days ago, JPMorgan projected that a recession will hit the US and European economies by July, with US GDP to shrink by 2% in the first quarter and 3% in the second, and Eurozone GDP to contract by 1.8% and 3.3% over the same periods. Sudden cessation of economic activity through quarantines, event cancellations, social distancing, and the almost complete shutdown of the tourist industry will have both immediate and longer term consequences for national economies and broader trade patterns. The mass closing of schools will expose pre-existing weaknesses in a modern system that sees women funneled en masse into the work place while their children are left in day cares or schools. According to numbers from the Bureau of Labor Statistics, more than 70 percent of American mothers with children under 18 work. Through the closing of schools alone, the impact of COVID-19 will almost certainly have the greatest impact on the role of women in the workplace since World War Two, with many forced to leave work and return to the home for an as yet undetermined amount of time. How this will impact the businesses or public entities employing these women remains to be seen, but it will undoubtedly cause significant difficulties and necessitate some level of infrastructural change.

The outbreak of COVID-19 is also projected to test Western healthcare provision to the limit. It’s been particularly interesting that the outbreak in Italy effectively broke the health system in Lombardy, widely regarded as one of the best in the world. Before the outbreak, it was remarked that:

The Lombardy healthcare system, characterised by quality and efficiency, is a model of reference both in Italy and worldwide. With the benefit of private partnerships in fact, it ensures its citizens and those who live in other regions or abroad have access to prime level health care with all the advantages of a public system. Lombardy has 56 University Departments of Medicine, 19 IRCCS (IRCCS means an institution devoted to excellence in clinical care and research) which represent 42% of the national total, 47 Institutes and 32 Research Centres. As a result, Lombardy and in particular Milan have always attracted the most renowned physicians in every field of expertise.

It took COVID-19 just four weeks to exhaust every hospital bed in Lombardy, force doctors out of retirement and medical students to graduate early, and provoke the creation of 500 triage tents outside hospitals nationwide. The different, and ever-politicized, healthcare systems of the United States and Great Britain are about to experience the most intensive test in their respective histories. One of the most outspoken figures from the medical profession on social media in recent days is Eugene Gu, who has made a point of attacking the profit-seeking nature of much of the American medical establishment. Gu has argued that American medicine is essentially a pyramid scheme that profits those at the top by artificially restricting the number of doctors produced by the system:

The medical school and residency system in the United States is completely broken compared to other countries. Now that we are in the middle of the coronavirus pandemic, we need to reflect upon an abusive system that hurts patients and seeks to make a few specialists filthy rich. Even before the coronavirus, we created a huge physician shortage by limiting spots in medical schools to inflate doctors’ salaries the same way De Beers fixes the diamond market. And we gutted primary care so that specialists like plastic surgeons and dermatologists can get rich. I took an oath to “first, do no harm.” I cannot just stand by and watch as the corrupt cesspool we call our American medical system fails our patients while a few doctors, insurance executives, and Big Pharma get filthy rich. Medicine should not be a for-profit industry.

Whether or not one agrees with Dr Gu’s perspective, the coming weeks and months will test both American for-profit medicine and Britain’s nationalized health system, and perhaps leave long term political legacies for both.

Political consequences will also inevitably result from the approaches of individual leaders to the crisis. Boris Johnson is risking his political future on a “herd immunity” strategy that is radically different from the course of action pursued by other leaders. It’s been criticized as involving the sacrifice of the older generation for a slightly prolonged period of economic normalcy and an entirely assumed future immunity among the young. Donald Trump, meanwhile, is quickly trying to move on from a highly dismissive initial response to the outbreak. In both cases, and throughout the West, moderately “conservative” populism based on the celebration of finance capitalism and token gestures on borders will be tested to the limit by increasing strains on all aspects of social, political, and economic life. Trump, in particular, has managed to squeeze a lot of political mileage out of the performance of the stock market. With stocks tumbling, and the American healthcare system pushed to the limit, it remains to be seen whether Trump’s drive to make gay sex legal in Africa will be enough to keep his voters happy.

In another return of the Real, of course, COVID-19 is doing more to close borders than any expression of political populism ever has. It was all well and good that “the world is a village” when this involved cheap and cheerful vacations, but all it took was a few houses in the throes of sickness for the rest of the villagers to wish there was somewhere they could escape to. The global village is in shutdown. All humans might be equally susceptible to this virus, but national borders, so often scorned until recently, now reveal they might have some uses after all – just one of them being the invaluable opportunity to seal and control a limited territory. How people grow accustomed to this renewed emphasis on border control may leave a lasting political legacy for the West also. In any case, we can only hope it will.


With events moving so quickly, I conclude with the oppressive sensation that I’ve written both too much and too little. The figures presented at the outset of this essay will be superfluous by the time this piece is published, but I do think some of the suggestions in the body will remain relevant for some time to come. I wish all our readers the best of luck and the best of health in the weeks and months to come. May globalism’s difficulty be the dissident’s opportunity.


77 thoughts to “How COVID-19 Will Test the West”

  1. We’re not hearing from Gian Franco and Spotti in Italy and that’s got me worried.

    1. The death rate figures are given as a percentage of those tested positive for CV. A more realistic figure would be as a percentage of the population, which in Britain as about 65 million, which would give a a figure of ………….

      65 million/300, whic is 2.16 million. So 1 in 2.16 million people have died of coronovirus over the past 3 months, and most of them were ove 75.

      More people have died in traffic accidents over the same period.

      This thing is no worse than typical winter flu.

      1. CORRECTION, I got the decimal point in the wrong place, it should be 1 in 216,000.

        1. Maybe that’s why we’re told not to shake hands with other people. 🙂

  2. New world orders are rising as disease scrambles old political systems. Peaceful replacements are impossible because of too many confused cooks in the kitchen. Humanists and Eugenists will be fighting for power while billions wander without leadership. Some will be searching for the ultimate orgasm while others search for food. Chaos and anarchy will result and last for an eternity.

    1. Mel
      There is no “an eternity”, only eternity. And nothing lasts forever. All things pass.

      No need for this kind of disinfo

      1. Chaos and anarchy is a natural condition. It is the order of all beasts in the field. Human beings are now set free as each accepts their birthright and personal compass. Dictators and tyrants have become obsolete as individuals find their own path. There will be some chaos as individuals fight with one another. Beasts in the field also fight without the need for a leader.
        There remains brain dead or retards that need a tyrant or dictator, most will die of starvation or just rot away. This natural order will exist for an eternity as humans finally become free..

  3. The West will cope by accepting the removal of ALL remaining natural rights of citizens. After the global warming hoax success, the Tribe and their psycho-historical computer models have ascertained stupidity level of the masses is so high that a pure psychological effect is sufficient to deliver the coup de gras.

    Rappoport seems the only real journalist left on the planet:

    Overeager and work-harried doctors diagnosing “suspected cases.”)
    And so on and so forth.
    NOT one condition with one cause.
    NOT one condition.
    NOT one cause.
    Therefore, the “spread and containment of the one virus” is wrongheaded.
    “But…but…suppose the patient tests positive for the coronavirus? Isn’t that
    some kind of proof? Doesn’t a positive test connect all these people with different
    conditions, under one banner?”
    No. I have covered this in other articles. Even assuming that researchers actually
    discovered COV—the diagnostic test, at best, might indicate the patient has a
    tiny, tiny amount of COV in his body. But, in order to cause illness, he would
    need to have millions and millions of virus actively replicating in his body. The
    test has never been proved to be capable of detecting that.
    And on top of all this, the overwhelming percentage of “COV cases” in the world
    have been diagnosed WITHOUT THE DIAGNOSTIC TEST for the virus.
    Therefore, what we’re left with are many people, with all sorts of different conditions,
    caused by many different factors—irrationally collected together under one label.
    “But…but…what about all these people all over the world suddenly getting sick
    and dying?”
    That’s not a true picture. In many, many cases, these are people who have been
    getting sick and dying in the same ways people been getting sick for a long, long
    time, down through history For example, TB and pneumonia. In other cases, the
    causes could/would be new. For instance, new pollution, a recent vaccination campaign(s),
    the new rollout of 5G, the accelerated use of antiviral drugs. The other new factors
    are the re-labeling of all these people with a novel term: “COV”;
    And the press coverage, and the pronouncements of governments.
    And then the lockdowns. And the economic warfare against the people.

    There is mo issue except for the immuno suppressed elderly. Technocracy Singapore have just started quarantining ONLY the elderly to protect them – the correct response.

    However since the West is full of obese, medically poisoned (prescription drugs, vaccines) and environmentally poisoned , there is a big issue for much younger people – but let them pay for their chosen lifestyle and let the tax slaves be free.

    1. Agree, Flan. The number of cases is bogus, the test is said to be inaccurate and some infected people never goes to the hospital.

      But we have a hard data we can work with, the dead bodies. Some can claim it’s all staged, the caskets are
      empty or they died for something else, you can go that way if you will, I won’t.

      You know, since you are familiar with mathematics, when we are dealing with big numbers (more than 2000 samples) the normal probability distribution can be used as a good approximation to reality. The same bell shaped curve used in population IQ. The curve parameters will change according to the efficacy of quarantine measures in each country.

      Now, what I’m seeing is every country in the world presenting bigger numbers of daily dead, every day the body count is bigger than the previous day, except China and I don’t believe their number anymore. There is a sensationalist article on ZeroHedge claiming 8 million cellphone lines are missing in China, they don’t turn on their phones anymore. There is no light in the end of this tunnel if we don’t start to see the numbers of dead people decreasing on a daily basis or a cure for the bioweapon. An American clever commenter on the same website did a bell curve with the numbers of dead Americans and presented his numbers, when we extrapolate the data two months ahead the numbers are apocalyptic, the majority of victims by far are old citizens.

      I didn’t start to cry already by I certainly will.

    2. Jon Rappoport’s articles are good! However, he is a writer, storyteller and publisher first, pushing his for profit Matrix books. He is not a Scientist and though he lectures on Logic, he does NOT understand the Scientific Method. When he criticizes Scientists or Doctors, he criticizes their agendas or biases, not their Scientific method. Ask Jon to explain the Scientific method in layman’s terms as well as from a process/methodological view. I bet you he can NOT! The Scientific method is more than just doing the same thing over and over again, and expecting a different result. Laypersons would describe that explanation as one of futility and average people do it all the time!

      1. Stormin’: I find Jon Rappoprt very good in an almost ‘anecdotal’ way. He has vast experience and has been at this subject for a long time. He was one of the very few voices of sanity during the HIV/AIDS craziness. He calls it as he sees it and he has seen a lot
        But I agree with you he is not a ‘Scientist’ …if he was he would go further and realize all so called viral disease is a misnomer. Viruses cause nothing except their function within the body of the being that creates them. They are NOT ‘out there’ waiting for a chance to ‘infect’ us. This corona nonsense is even deeper rubbish than he seems to realize. He see the nonsense just from good observations however a deeper understanding would anchor it all in place much more imho. And we would then realize the story they are pushing about corona is an IMPOSSIBILITY

  4. The silver lining in all this? This could be the conditions and events that lead to MAJOR political change and the next Hitler rising to power, just like what happened in post WWI Germany. If it all crashes down, there will be not just economic consequences, there will be major politics consequences as well. Public faith in the system is just as critical in politics as it is in the economy.

    If that is the long-term gain to be made, the short-term pain will be 100% worth it.

  5. In the article: “Conspiracy theories on the origins of COVID-19 are of course a very convenient and useful tool for the Chinese government, because they deflect attention from the fact the outbreak can easily be attributed to bad government, and to Communism itself.”

    Socialist/Communist changes are inevitable…….
    There will be changes. However….. “….just like what happened in post WWI Germany” is next to impossible. The German ‘mark’ was not the major reserve currency in the world.

    These worldwide financial conditions have never been experienced before.

  6. “…the genome of COVID-19 has also been examined countless times with the result that there are now over 300 papers on MedRXiv concerning the structure, nature, and origins of the virus. None of these papers have highlighted anything suggesting an artificial origin of any aspect of COVID-19.”

    On the contrary, there are many such papers on MedRXiv and other scientific paper publishing sites. Quite a few are referenced in this article, which makes a compelling case for COVID-19 being a laboratory engineered virus

    1. Precisely!

      Here is an article published in November 2015 about engineered bat virus risks. The site’s editor wrote an update note (March 2020):

      “We are aware that this story is being used as the basis for unverified theories that the novel coronavirus causing COVID-19 was engineered. There is no evidence that this is true; scientists believe that an animal is the most likely source of the coronavirus.”

      He means “scientists” believe… Everyone is SO afraid to say the virus is man-made. I know, that’s another case of National Security (Security to the Jews).

  7. The most suspicious thing I’ve seen so far regarding COVID-19, IMO, is the way drugs like hydroxychloroquine are being downplayed by many “establishment” mouthpieces.

    As much as I dislike Trump and disapprove of almost everything he says or does, he happens to be correct in his assessment of hydroxychloroquine as a “tremendous breakthrough.” And hydroxychloroquine isn’t the only drug).

    This drug has been around for a long time and its pharmacological properties are well known. IIRC it’s been proven effective in animal studies against other corona viruses, it inhibits SARS-CoV-2 at a low micromolar concentration in vitro, and in a recent paper by a renowned French doctor, it’s been shown to be effective in treating COVID-19 patients.

    When a nuclear power plant has an accident and releases I-131, they immediately hand out 135 mg potassium iodide tablets; they don’t do double-blind, placebo-controlled clinical trials in the middle of a health-threatening emergency, they take reasonable action.

    That Trump is being bashed so much for his optimistic yet completely justifiable assessment (IMO) completely gives the game away. If “the people” know that a cheap generic drug most likely available at their local drug store can cure COVID-19 disease they’re less likely to panic. So the obvious conclusion is that somebody wants to create panic.

    All this hand-waving and dismissive rhetoric by Anthony Fauci and an assortment of charlatanic “medical correspondents” and sundry talking heads on TeeVee (i.e., “we need more data, we need clinical trials, we don’t know if it’s effective…blah…blah…blah), is pure pedantry in the service of some sinister agenda.

    March 22, 2020 at 6:20 pm
    Do I have to mention the Jews will suppress the cure?


    Not at all. The Jew will garner a public relations coup at low cost. Hydroxychloroquin is dirt cheap to manufacture. see here —

    Check the “comments section” on this article. Delusion on display.

    1. Six million doses?! One dose for each holocausted Jew, this must be a magik Kabbalistic number!

  9. This totally fabricated fake crisis actually has a clear purpose.

    To end Bretton Woods and replace it with something even more centralised. That’s why it is a global affaire, since all central banks are property of the same parasite. But I think there is a good chance its plans will not succeed. because it is an act of despair.

    1. 1138 I agree. For more on this her is an excellent video touching on some of the agendas. This guy sees corona as a cover story for financial collapse in the US. Trouble is the way I see it this ‘cover story’ will cause MORE financial collapse but maybe it is designed to do just that. Collapse followed by maybe a one world currency and run ‘Chinese style’ ………….massive surveillance, everything cyber. 5G would be needed to run such a mad house

  10. Be very CAREFUL of your weapons you use while fighting on this battlefield!!

    Yes…. “CHLOROQUINE has been used for decades to treat malaria, and chronic rheumatoid arthritis.”

    “It can have dangerous side effects, including death, if taken incorrectly. Even when taken correctly, it can cause things like stomach distress, and even *PERMANENT DAMAGE* to a person’s vision.”

    1. @ Pat

      If the author of that establishment propaganda piece was coughing up blood and gasping for breath he’d be screaming for plaquenil with the little breathe he had left.

      (And there are other drugs that are less toxic than plaquenil with a very mild side effects profile that aren’t even being looked at seriously but would be if the FDA and NIH were acting in good faith).

    2. Yes, help, the sky is busy falling down.

      I was deployed 1980 in Namibia in the Caprivi strip. It is an malaria region. We troops therefore regularly had to take chloroquine. There were no reported side effects, except rumours that it affected ones tanning abilities in the sun. This killed one corporal from a replacement squadron after I did my tour of duty. He thought that the region is quite dead from war actions (there was a massive attack on the garrison city of Katima Mulilo before and that was countered with so much aplomb that that region turned quiet forever, apart for some minor incidents). He neglegently decided to tan outside the armoured scout car turret during a patrol, and was shot dead from the turret.

      This Coronavirus is slowly starting to irritate me. Have we all become cowards? I started my career in a time when limpet mines were going of left and right in our cities, the Cubans stood 20km from our borders and we went through several state of emergencies due to black unrest caused by communist blacks like the ANC and intertribal rivalries. We went on with our lives if nothing happened. There was no permanent fear of dying when walking in the streets. Mustn’t have been much different in Rhodesia back then.

      Few people died from Corona so far. We are being suckered into something, what exactly will sooner or later reveal itself. The main stream media is busy firing away fake news at a pace of a MG42 and also in South Africa (I did not expect it there – a weaker generation than us?) there is a rush for toilet paper. People are more scared on what is leaving their behind that what is entering from the front.

      May rationality take over sooner rather than later.

  11. It’s a Hoax alright…
    The virus may or may not be real but we should suspect an ulterior motive…..
    And just how long are people expected to stay in their houses?
    How much longer before the food runs out?
    What happens if this lasts for a period of months? How about 6 months?
    I don’t think it can last for too long without a major upheaval and then the big put-down…
    Are we ever going to get over it and be back to normal, or is this designed to totally change the world, leaving us in a place where our personal freedoms will be no more…
    Look, suddenly now you have no more freedom of assembly, meaning the public can not effectively address the state for redress of grievance…
    well, we’ve all seen the Deagel Report, and we were wondering how the population reduction program would manifest… We said a bioweapon was a good guess… Is this it? Because if i is it’s about right on schedule… There will be massive unemployment… the Economy will grind to a halt… A check for everybody for 1,000 bucks is going to save the world? Are you kidding me? at some point there will be no more food available…. then here comes the Gray State when the normal order has totally broken down and violence rules… Military Occupation everywhere and Marshall Law….
    By the time it’s all over we may well lose 300,000,000 people in the USA….
    If this really is the Big Hit, we’re going to get the message before too much longer that the virus is totally out of control… The best the state will be able to do is gather up the bodies, if that…
    Bill Gates, the Davos Crowd – They’ve been working on it for a while…

    1. @ Barkingdeer

      It’s MARTIAL law, moron. Not MARSHALL law!
      Whew! where are guys like you educated?

      1. @ Silent Reader
        @ Dr Parker

        Just to let you know that this has nothing against “off-topic comments” in moderation and Admin would probably agree with me that it would be advisable if you two complainers would stop attacking respected posters like Gilby and Brownhawk. If they wish, let them relax occasionally and make use of this site as a “chatroom”. This is a measure designed to ease stress and promote camaraderie and friendly feelings in these exceptionally tense times.

        As for spelling mistakes, let me tell you that Shakespeare didn’t even know how to spell his own name and used TEN different spellings for his name. Dyslexia is quite common and even the greatest literary figures have been lousy spellers. So don’t knock Gilby, our resident Poet Laureate. 🙂

      2. Thanks for that Madame.

        Those knuckleheads could probably use a little of the best medicine human beings have been endowed with – HUMOR. This reminds me of the story about two old Chinese guys who both agreed that when all is said and done, all you can do is laugh 😄

        Silent Reader, consider that perhaps Barkindeer was subliminally referencing what was called the Marshall Plan, which had to do with the realignment of Europe after the war in Europe had ended in 1945. I suspect that some kind of an equivalent is in the works today regarding a realignment of the U.S.

    2. National debt will rise until the US dollar becomes worthless. Most people will not be able to purchase food or pay their bills. Chaos and anarchy will result in mass starvation and disease. Holders of gold and silver will be able to buy housing and food. Farmers will become the privileged class. Private security guards will protect precious metal holders and farmers. Urchins will turn to prostitution, surviving on a few silver coins. Mature prostitutes cannot compete with urchin hookers ,they will starve and die alone. Big city populations will face death. Those living close to farms will thrive. Over 200 million US citizens will be gone with the wind.

      1. I think much of what you say makes sense. After hyperinflation the devalued dollar will be worthless. Those who still have savings in the bank, or a nest egg in cash, will find their money has lost most of its value. This is the biggest swindle in history. But reflect: isn’t this a way of America cheating China, by paying their enormous debts to China in worthless dollars?

      2. Melvin, I agree with what you have just said. We face mass starvation and disease as the economy collapses and people have no jobs and no money. Manufacturing will be non existent. I live on a self sufficient commune, so will survive, along with my large extended family. Perhaps even a kulak likeGilby will survive on squirrel and gopher meat and cheap wine and drugs. Already, urchin hookers, as you so appropriately call them, are plying their trade in our towns and starving the experienced Lolas out of business. They charge around $5 a pop. No one is talking about the virus, as it has become a matter of pure, dog eat dog survival.

      3. Yeah, Maxy, but “kulaks” like myself have been planning. Just today, another kulak and me were discussing our sorghum crop to be planted this May. This fall, we’ll mill sorghum syrup, and maybe make some rum. Along with corn and some other things, there won’t be much need to shoot squirrels (although I DO like me some squirrel gravy!🙂). However, my rifles are always ready to shoot vermin who trespass uninvited, so don’t wander too far abroad.

  12. Good article about the challenges the West faces. However as some commenters ( G J T and Sabretache) point out in reality, the agendas of the Jewry NWO march on and scientific papers are being suppressed concerning the genomics of the Coronavirus. They are pushing Natural causes when in fact because the Covid-19 virus has HIV genes in it, it was man-made, BIO-ENGINEERED (full Stop). Besides, if this Cornavirus was natural from Bats or Snakes, the Bat or Snake population would be dying off (culled). No such info or reports have been shown. Thus Big Pharma and the Medical Establishment are lying. In addition. Chloroquine is cheap compared to a NEW Vaccine. Big Pharma wants Big Money, not chump- change!

    Amerika will be put in its place by Karma because as a Taiwanese Virologist already showed, the genetic map and genetic tree ( how viruses are changed scientifically and related to each other) of SARS-CoV-2 show HIV genes and other signs that it came from Amerika. Fort Detrick and /or Harvard/UNC anyone! Amerika’s meddling will come back to bite it in the arse!

    Also, reports are coming out that besides China sending equipment to Italy, Russia will also send military MASH unit personnel and trucks to help Italy and Europe. Amerika so far has only announced that the Europe Defender 20 military maneuvers are postponed or eventually cancelled. Big deal, if that is true they can then show their personnel did not spread Covid-19, like their crappy spies/Soldiers/Athletes probably spread Influenza/Coronavirus in Wuhan in October 2019. It is also reported that all cases of Patient Zero candidates were seen in November 2019 in all Eurasian locations and probably in the USA as well. (Medical professionals thought it was the Flu by mistake and thus were not tracking the patients).

    So now if China and Russia are going to help European countries, do you think Europeans are going to trust Amerikans ever again. I Think NOT. Thus Europes shift to the East , the BRI (New Silk Road), SCO, AIIB, etc. will take place and guarantee the demise of the Anglo-Amerikan-Israeli Alliance. And in the mean time the FED and the US government will Bail-out Banks and Corporations again like in 2008-2009. All at the expense of the Amerikan people.

    Check out article from The Saker posted to The UNZ review concerning a Microbiologist’s viewpoint.

    PS: I have always know and stated that Amerika must collapse first before the NWO agenda procedes fully. Coronavirus, Covid-19 will achieve this! ALSO, if you feel the symptoms of a Cold or Flu, DO NOT take IBUPROPHEN based drugs like Advil. The Cold/Flu (Covid-19 like symptoms) could cause death because the Virus attacks the same ACE2 receptors on cell membranes that Ibuprophen works on and weakens. Take ACETAMINOPHEN (Tylenol type meds) instead! Be SAFE!

    1. Stormin, You say “the challenges the West faces.”
      We face only one challenge and that is destroying the Jewish sociopaths and psychopaths who are making a grand harvest out of the two great hoaxes – man made global warming and the hyped up crown flu. The West is on its last legs and the Jews are submitting the coup de grace. All of this while the lack of sunspots is actually cooling our planet, and a slight cold is bedevilling mankind. Imagine if they hyped up the 324,000 that have died this year from what the scribes say is the normal flu? Compare this viruses total deaths in 3 months (5438) with the 123,500 that have died of car accidents, the 12,900 of AIDS, the 25,000 that normally die in China every single day. …. to the slim number of covid19 deaths. Yet, I am, according to my state’s new laws, not allowed to embrace a sex worker, not allowed to meet in a group more than five, not allowed food at the pub, not allowed to dance or sing at the bar. Meanwhile, the Jews are partying it up in their penthouses and hidden bunkers and aggregating $$$$$’s hand over fist. I’m off in my yacht to the Cook Islands where you are allowed to cuddle and kiss and pretty well do what you like.

      1. @ Max:

        Yes, and the International Jewry Mobsters/Banksters are on BOTH sides for their own benefit.

  13. Our greatest enemies, the mega Jewish bankers, are adding many zeros to their fake monies and loaning it out willy nilly to any government pawn that wants it. Fake credit is thus sold as debt which the bankers will recoup from the savings of Goyim workers. The Jew thus strengthens his role as Master of the Universe. And then we’ve got idiots talking about dandelion wine, making cheap dope, honouring their flag, and admitting they have been Jewified. And will our poor litt’l TROJ (so called whiddlejoew) hand his $1,000 back to internal revenue, or give it to the homeless?

  14. Correct me if I am wrong but I haven’t heard anything yet about ‘ virus’ cases in eastern- europe, Russia, sweden, south-america etc
    What the hell is going on in secret?

    1. The dictatorship under ‘Put-On’ in Russia has a handle on it…..

      MOSCOW, January 27. /TASS/. The Federal Service for Supervision of Consumer Rights Protection and Human Well-Being of Russia has examined more than 1.3 million people since December 31 in a bid to prevent the spread of the new coronavirus in Russia, the watchdog head Anna Popova told journalists Monday.

    2. Sorry, Allen, but capital letters for proper nouns in future!
      Is “in secret” a place? Are you referring to the US Congress?
      In answer to your query: The USA and Israeli operatives concentrated their initial virus contagions to Belt and Road principals, inc China, Iran, Spain and Italy. Russia was wise to them and the shit countries of Africa and South America are hardly worth it, but will be hit in time.


    It seemed an unimportant detail to me…
    there’s not much of a distinction anyway… it all means the same thing, especilly when they shoot you for being in the wrong place… here’s the definitions,, stuff them up your faggot ass…
    marshal noun
    mar·​shal | \ ˈmär-shəl \
    variants: or less commonly marshall
    Definition of marshal (Entry 1 of 2)
    1a: a high official in the household of a medieval king, prince, or noble originally having charge of the cavalry but later usually in command of the military forces
    b: a person who arranges and directs the ceremonial aspects of a gathering
    a parade marshal

    martial adjective
    Log In
    mar·​tial | \ ˈmär-shəl \
    Definition of martial (Entry 1 of 2)
    1: of, relating to, or suited for war or a warrior
    martial music
    a martial tone of voice
    — Tim Appelo
    martial prowess
    2: relating to an army or to military life
    martial discipline
    stories of martial tradition
    — Ewen Macaskill
    3: experienced in or inclined to war : WARLIKE
    its martial people fought the British to a standstill
    — Mary Anne Weaver
    Martial biographical name
    Mar·​tial | \ ˈmär-shəl \
    Definition of Martial (Entry 2 of 2)
    circa a.d. 40–circa 103 Marcus Valerius Martialis Roman epigrammatist
    Other Words fr
    b: a general officer of the highest military rank
    3a: an officer having charge of prisoners
    b(1): a ministerial (see MINISTERIAL sense 3) officer appointed for a judicial district (as of the U.S.) to execute the process of the courts and perform various duties similar to those of a sheriff
    (2): a city law officer entrusted with particular duties
    c: the administrative head of a city police department or fire department
    marshal verb
    variants: or less commonly marshall
    marshaled or marshalled; marshaling or marshalling\ ˈmärsh-​(ə-​)liŋ \
    Definition of marshal (Entry 2 of 2)
    transitive verb
    1: to place in proper rank or position
    marshaling the troops
    2: to bring together and order in an appropriate or effective way
    marshal arguments
    marshaled her thoughts before answering the question
    3: to lead ceremoniously or solicitously : USHER
    marshaling her little group of children down the street
    intransitive verb
    : to take form or order
    ideas marshaling neatly

    martial law noun

    Definition of martial law
    1: the law applied in occupied territory by the military authority of the occupying power
    2: the law administered by military forces that is invoked by a government in an emergency when the civilian law enforcement agencies are unable to maintain public order and safety
    Examples of martial law in a Sentence
    The government has imposed martial law throughout the city to stop the riots.
    an area placed under martial law
    Recent Examples on the Web
    Some 200 suspects were detained, amid a national outcry which saw the central government impose martial law.
    — James Griffiths, CNN, “Philippines awaits verdict in ‘trial of the decade’ over Maguindanao massacre,” 18 Dec. 2019
    In 1981, authorities in Poland imposed martial law in a crackdown on the Solidarity labor movement.
    —, “In 1981, authorities in Poland imposed martial law in a crackdown on the Solidarity labor movement. (Martial law formally ended in 1983.),” 13 Dec. 2019
    And what’s your opinion on all of this?
    can you string a few sentences together in a thread, or are you just here to take potshots?

    1. @ Barkingdeer

      Admit you are wrong and don’t make a fool of yourself by trying to make out that there’s no difference between MARTIAL law and MARSHALL law. There is. You might as well argue that there’s no difference between a PANE in a window and a PAIN in the stomach. Idiot!

  16. ALLEN
    Good Point…
    Of Course the corporate state media only gives you what information they want you to have…
    It’s not like they’re going to tell you the whole truth…
    There’s no law saying they have to tell you the truth at all, is there?
    It’s pretty hard to maintain the illusion, if they do…
    They’re in the sales business… that’s it…

  17. Yes I was wrong, it occurred to me at the time but didn’t bother to look up the spelling…
    was it worth calling me a name over?’
    answer the question, or leave me alone…
    why did you do that? why are you still doing it?
    you could have pointed it out without the insult…
    if you dislike me already – is it because my posts make you uncomfortable?
    if they do, it’s not meant to be a personal insult…
    do you want to kill everybody who doesn’t think what you do?
    this is not a place for personal attacks, which is what people do when they have no logical argument otherwise…
    calling someone a name is nothing but personal insult, and it’s not called for…
    is it?
    i know we’ve all been taught a lot wrong, we all have a lot of abuse to give back…
    one of my rules is – don’t say anything about someone you wouldn’t say to their face…
    think about it…
    would you have called me that to my face?
    since you asked, i have about a fifth grade education…

    1. @ Barkingdeer

      I am moved by your comment. It is obviously sincere. I think I was wrong to attack you and promise not to do so again. The fault lies in me, not in you. Pleae note that you are not the only person I have been unpleasant to, but one of several. I have been displacing my own insecurities by picking on other people who have as much right to express their opinions here as I do.

      You have also said many things that are highly original and worthy of praise. I want you to know that. Please ignore all the insults that have come your way, both from me and others.

      I am a bad person and will now remain silent for a bit, in keeping with my name.

      1. And I apologise to the hapless Gilby for inferring he is a dumb, country yokel. Sadly, he imbibes in too much dandelion blossom alcohol and cheap dope and that has addled his brain.

    2. A “fifth grade” education, Barking? Your educators on the reservation would have offered you a lot more! You could have cherished education and gone to university. No wonder you cannot spell. Accept responsibility for your own lack of drive and initiative. It is like “whiddle joe” (TROJ) expecting handouts and free food. It is all too easy to accept a welfare mentality and claim victim hood. Use a spell check.

      1. Max, when being critical of another person especially, one must be perfect in the critique itself.
        A well educated person knows that when adding the word “hood” to another noun, it becomes one word, not two.
        So, “victimhood”, not “victim hood”.

    3. @ Barkingdeer:

      Like for most Amerikans, COMMON CORE education is NOT your friend. Bush (1 or 2) said Education was equality for everyone! BS! More like make Amerikans stupid!

  18. Barkingdeer, stop being so neurotically sensitive! This fake virus is creating a worldwide pandemonium of FEAR and subsequent neuroticism. Silent Reader is simply trying to stop you from making a fool of yourself. I allow for your indigenous background and lack of plain English skills and have a little laugh at your lack of spelling skills. But some of the things you say are sensible. It’s like Gilby – a dumbed down kulak who thinks he is defending America. He entertains me as a mere yokel who gives simplistic, village idiot like explanations. We are all under strain as the Jews collapse the West, so let us not sink to the level of beasts and keep up a fine level of decorum and gentility. I know this does not come naturally for Red Indians and country bumpkins.

    1. On cue I will respond to our resident Aussie crocodile by stating that decorum and gentility don’t come “naturally” to people, but to individuals whose parents have demonstrated it.

      But I get it mate, you’re just looking to get a rise out of Red Indians and country bumpkins to keep things light in these trying times…..I guess it’s working 😁

  19. Unfortunately, instead of gentility and decorum, here in far North Queensland, barbarity and the rule of the jungle is winning sway. Stores are being looted, fishing nets stolen and the general atmosphere in the pub has become one of mistrust and open aggression. Smaller men congregate around my fists, hoping I will protect their wallets, for a small payment. The whores want my attention and want me to hold their $10 notes; once again, for a price. .. Like Mark Twain, I take extensive notes. The rapid fall into what the great Solzhenitsyn described as rapid “decivilization” is more than obvious. I buy 3 pints of beer at a time, as it is dangerous to walk to the bar. A Muslim friend is returning to western Sydney to be among his people, as they are ordered and law abiding and retain conscience and the fear of God. Maybe Islam is the answer in these times of chaotic madness and greed. All around me people are turning into wild beasts/yahoos. Soon the troops will move in and there goes our freedom for ever. Israel is expanding its Jewish empire as we are occupied with hoarding and rioting and preparing for the Supreme Court of Mankind to commence giving its orders to a Gentile population devoid of all civility. The mass murdering is about to commence. So kiss your previous life goodbye. Get ready to defend that roll of toilet paper to the death.

    That’s Cool… We’re Good…
    “We are all under strain as the Jews collapse the West, so let us not sink to the level of beasts and keep up a fine level of decorum and gentility.”
    Right On… Things have improved here too, more civil….
    None of us know each other well enough to make too many negative judgements, especially of a personal nature…

  21. Yes Jake, I made a typo with “victimhood.” Similarly with Robinhood. Similarly, with Rothschild or its English form, Redshield. And okay, some of our Red Indian friends make a few spelling mistakes. But let us give it all a rest. We do not to be dictated to by spelling Nazis, who think they are superior because they can pick up spelling errors. Similarly, I could easily pick up grammatical errors and lack of punctuation. Jake, read your first sentence. The word “especially” is redundant and your final sentence includes no verb and is not a sentence. Gilby gets it altogether in his poems, but otherwise writes like an ignorant, abusive kulak. Barkingdeer, you are very gracious in accepting my rudeness, which I am trying to redress. As I said, we live in troubled times and tempers get frayed. You and Brownhawk provide an important multicultural point of view and are quite clever, in your Red Indian connivances. As I said, I supported the annihilation of Custer and even supported the Mexicans, supported by Indians, at the Alamo.

  22. In the time I have spent here (about 3 months) I have almost always felt Barkindeer’s comments are probably the most insightful and original. I seriously mean that. Also I notice he often has the ‘last’ comment like the truth of what he says almost shuts up everyone else who could only follow with a lessor comment. In fact I always LOOK for his comments because they are seriously worth reading. There is no need for people to ‘bark’ so much about a simple spelling error. I am surprised people give it such importance.
    And Barkindeer………….I have put this video on further up the thread but check out this, I really think these guys are on the ball

    1. Patrick –

      A voice of reason!! I agree 100%!!!!

      Some here only abuse others and never provide help. Admin has noted….. that is not needed in this war.

  23. BIG Money $$$$ SCREAMS in the West!! States have no chance!!

    The federal government outbid states on critical coronavirus supplies after Trump told governors to get their own medical equipment!!

    The federal government is outbidding states on orders of critical medical equipment necessary to aid patients and protect medical professionals from coronavirus.

    States are losing out on crucial equipment orders even though President Donald Trump directed them to get their own supplies, rather than relying on help from the federal government.

    Massachusetts Gov. Charlie Baker told Trump during a conference call on Thursday that the federal government had outbid his state on three major orders of medical equipment.

    This comes as the US is facing a widespread shortage of equipment, including basic disinfecting products, surgical masks, and life-saving machines like ventilators.


    They have only PROTECTION of the rights listed and that protection was REMOVED by the continuation of Military Law beyond 1861…. and that military jurisdiction is known as Martial Law Proper!!

    ***ALL in the US live under MARTIAL LAW PROPER!!

    SCOTUS RULING IN 1866 – Chief Justice Samuel Chase delivered:

    “MARTIAL LAW PROPER is called into action by Congress, or temporarily, when the action of Congress cannot be invited, and, in the case of justifying or excusing peril, by the President in times of insurrection or invasion or of civil or foreign war, within districts or localities where ordinary law no longer adequately secures public safety and private rights.

    [ ‘ORDINARY law’ is common law.
    ‘PRIVATE rights’ includes corporations’ rights. ]

    “In strict dictionary terms, martial law is the suspension of civil authority and the imposition of military authority.

    “When we say a region or country is “under martial law,” we mean to say that the military is in control of the area, that it acts as the police, as the courts, as the legislature.

    “The degree of control might vary – a nation may have a civilian legislature but have the courts administered by the military.

    “Or the legislature and courts may operate under civilian control with a military ruler. (In US we have THIS today under the President – CIC.)

    “In each case, martial law is in effect, even if it is not called “martial law.”

    It is spelled out in GREATER depth by Judge Advocate General, Major General Berkhimer in 1892 – “MILITARY GOVERNMENT AND MARTIAL LAW”:

  25. I tend to go by the worst case scenario which is the cruise liner the “Diamond Princess”. Passengers there were under the most favourable (or should I say worst?) conditions for the spreading of the virus, including centralised air conditioning, and a large number of them were elderly. So far 11 out of 712 infected passengers have died, which would make the fatality rate 1.5%. Most people elsewhere would not be under such conditions of close proximity for long periods of time, except perhaps in nursing homes, hospitals and prisons, so any greater fatality rates reported in the open population are probably due to low testing rates. There is some information on this and other stricken cruise ships here:

    2154 of the 3711 people on board the “Diamond Princess” were over 60 years of age. The crew numbered 1045, and these would tend to be younger and healthier so even if some were infected they should have recovered. Who is interested in a more detailed analysis, including breakdown by age, should consult this paper:

    What I find hard to believe is that all those who died, died of Covid-19 and not of any other ailments, considering the age and probably ill health of many of these passengers – not even due to complications arising from the seasonal flu. Some more will probably die, given the same considerations, and if they had tested positive for Covid-19 will their deaths also be ascribe to this virus, thus raising the fatality rate?

    It would also be interesting to know what was the prevalence of the seasonal flu among these passengers, but were they tested for this at all? So they all got the coronavirus and nobody got the flu, or so it seems? (I haven’t yet had the chance to read this paper in detail nor have I studied the matter further, so if there is data for seasonal flu among the passengers I stand corrected and perhaps another reader could direct me to the data).

    PAT used to be on submarines, didn’t he?. Perhaps he could enlighten us about the spread of colds and flu while at sea – were there ever any cases? Of course sailors are young and fit so I wouldn’t expect any complications, but I find it strange that no mention is made of this regarding the cruise ship passengers who were very old, and we all know that seasonal flu kills many in that age and health bracket.

    1. CM –
      Thanks for asking.
      No one ever got sick with any colds or flu that I remember. And we were even closer than on a cruise liner. The crew was 140 total. We were submerged for 70-80 days at a time. Most of the crew bunked in the same compartment – the crew’s berthing. There were pleny of those who caught cold in the Newport News VA shipyard in winter…. while there for 2 years.

      I attribute the lack of sicknesses on patrols to the high oxygen concentration(22%) that was maintained, as compared to the atmosphere(20-21%). We made our own oxygen from seawater. We scrubbed CO2 with amines – monoethanolamine (MEA) – and burned impurities, generated by equipment and cooking food, in burners designed to do so in the macinery space.

      Oxygen kills viruses and bacteria and promotes healing. Today’s atmospere is less than it should be, and has been for many decades. So everyone is at risk to being sicker and having shortened lifespans.

      This article will help to explain air control on a submarine:
      When we breathe in air, our bodies consume its oxygen and convert it to carbon dioxide. Exhaled air contains about 4.5 percent carbon dioxide. Our bodies do not do anything with nitrogen or argon. A submarine is a sealed container that contains people and a limited supply of air. There are three things that must happen in order to keep air in a submarine breathable:

      1-Oxygen has to be replenished as it is consumed. If the percentage of oxygen in the air falls too low, a person suffocates.
      2-Carbon dioxide must be removed from the air. As the concentration of carbon dioxide rises, it becomes a toxin.
      3-The moisture that we exhale in our breath must be removed.

      Oxygen is supplied either from pressurized tanks, an oxygen generator (which can form oxygen from the electrolysis of water) or some sort of “oxygen canister” that releases oxygen by a very hot chemical reaction. (You may remember these canisters because of their problems on the MIR space station — see this page for details). Oxygen is either released continuously by a computerized system that senses the percentage of oxygen in the air, or it is released in batches periodically through the day.

      Carbon dioxide can be removed from the air chemically using soda lime (sodium hydroxide and calcium hydroxide) in devices called scrubbers. The carbon dioxide is trapped in the soda lime by a chemical reaction and removed from the air. Other similar reactions can accomplish the same goal.

      The moisture can be removed by a dehumidifier or by chemicals. This prevents it from condensing on the walls and equipment inside the ship.

      In addition, other gases such as carbon monoxide or hydrogen, which are generated by equipment and cigarette smoke, can be removed by burners. Finally, filters (precipitators) are used to remove particulates, dirt and dust from the air.

    2. @ Commenter Mike:

      Good thinking! The problem is, what did those people on the cruise ship that were asymptomatic (showed no symptoms of Cold/Flu – fever, stuffy nose, trouble breathing) do? Did they self-isolate/ quarantine themselves or did they carry on as business as usual – continue tours, visit sites, go shopping, etc., thus spreading the virus to unsuspecting bystanders.

      And as I have said elsewhere, we have to wait and see what the numbers are like in April, May and early June. If Coronavirus, is normal winter season Flu-like, the numbers will drop to near Zero in the Warmer weather. (Hope so!) If the numbers stay flat or increase exponentially ( like Australia and South Africa now) we are in trouble and this is not a normal Flu-like virus. It is most likely a man-made bio-engineered weapon produced in a lab. God help us all!

  26. Pat :

    You were stationed in the Pacific, so if your sub needed to go in for repairs or whatever, why didn’t you go to the San Diego Navy base? Why did you go all the way around to Newport News, Virginia when you were in the Pacific? It doesn’t make sense to go to Newport News Virginia for repairs or whatever when you’re in the Pacific and San Diego Navy base is a lot closer to where you’re stationed, the Pacific. Why were you at the Newport News base for 2 years? Seems like a long time. Why were you in port for a such a long time? And why was it an East Coast port when you were stationed in the Pacific? How come it wasn’t a West Coast port, like San Diego Navy Base for example?

    1. TROJ –

      Good questions.

      Bremerton WA and Vallejo CA would have been the repair shipyards for subs in the Pacific back then…. not San Diego, which was the Pacific Fleet base.

      My sub was transferred to the Atlantic Fleet and scheduled for conversion from Polaris to Poseidon missiles, and a new reactor core at NNS&DDCO, owned & operated by Tenneco. We sailed through the Panama Canal. Quite a trip from Hawaii!!

      After that, the sub was home ported in Charleston SC…. and was stationed for patrols out of Holy Loch Scotland. It was COLD!!! I made 5 patrols above the Arctic Circle from there. There were 90ft seas in the winter… which tore several missile hatch cowlings off on the first patrol!!
      Take a look at the sub tender, Proteus, and floating drydock…. anchored in Holy Loch, near Dunoon, Argyll, Scotland – Home to Submarinme Squadron 14:

      1. Sorry – USS Proteus was on the west coast then… Guam.

        USS Hunley was in Holy Loch:
        The USS Hunley (AS-31) was launched 28 September 1961 by the Newport News Shipbuilding & Dry Dock Co., Newport News, Va. (NNS&DDCO); and commissioned 16 June 1962.

        Makes me cold looking at the 2 subs tied up alongside, starboard:

  27. PAT,

    Sounds like you participated in The Hunt For Red October. I’m sure you played an integral role and most likely you’re not at liberty to divulge any info about that Top Secret mission so I won’t ask you any questions about Mission : Hunt For Red October!

    As they say to veterans at Home Depot and Lowe’s as they give the veterans discounts : Thank you for your service! 🙂

    1. I am also looking with new eyes at Pat. What a privilege to have served on board of a submarine. And what an once in a life time adventure. I remember the scenes from the submarine in the movie Ice Station Zebra. It impressed me a lot. I suppose our mariners with their small navy weren’t too bad either from some of the stuff they pulled off in Angola. Do people still remember that there once was a thing called a Cold War?

      If I may post this link (a South African elite naval special forces soldier reflects on a bungled operation years later, with deep implications of treason at the highest level of government):

      1. ESA –

        Thanks for the nod. I did my job as a nuclear engineer & reactor plant operator. I was also the overseer of all the electrical generating equipment onboard. It was very challenging. Fun at times, while young.

        It is a shame that jews have caused the political unrest for decades which resulted in whites having to flee their farms and businesses in all of Africa. A good freind, Les Souter, originally from Scotland, had to leave his farm in 1980. He was a neighbor in Houston. He had many terribly horrific stories.

    2. TROJ –

      You GOT IT!! 🙂

      Glad to help – THANKS!!

      However…. I was not glad I spent a month in the hospital in Guam from an explosion on the deck of the sub while alongside the tender… WHEW!! 🙁

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